Groovy distortion...everybody's got it?

[Dave Baldwin]

There are some classic garage records out there with mastering and/or pressing defects that sound
terrible even on otherwise visually "mint" 45s. Not talking about primitive recording techniques or bad
vinyl/styrene quality here. A classic example would be The Caretakers 'Hidden Steps' (Worm) Let's create
a thread to bird dog some of these hidden ear burners. A few that have always bugged me:

1) CHEVELLE V - 'Koko Joe' (flip side of 'Come Back Bird'
on Askel...which sounds fine even with the wonky bass)
Got to spin three new/mint and one VG used copy and
they all had the defect.




2) THE FENDER IV - 'Everybody Up' on Imperial...which has incredible high frequency groove distortion all
the way through on every copy I've ever played...stock, promo, VG- to mint whatever. Randy Holden played
through clean, non-distorted Fender Showman amps at that time (as evidenced by the other songs
from that session that were released) so it ain't him. Too bad, since it's a monster surf guitar workout.



Anybody ever get a clean-playing copy of either one? Or know of other such 7" landmines?

 

[Frantic]

When the guys in the Caretakers heard Hidden Steps for the 1st time they we totally pissed and threw out all their copies. When I used this track on UP FROM THE GRAVE I actually made it sound a bit better. Since it was in mono and both sides had the same music but not the same quality, I deleted the side (can't remember which side) with the most distortion and inserted the side with less distortion which made it a little more listenable. You can thank engineer Martin Ashley for the awful sound. He told me he knew the sound sucked on the master but he sent it to the pressing plant anyway because he didn't want to re-record it!!!

 

[Frantic]

Maybe the Boss will tell you guys how bad the LORDS She's Mine on Vance sounds. All copies (I was told 50 were pressed) sound really bad and the band took them out back and blasted them into oblivion. Which leaves maybe 2 copies on earth.

 

[MopTopMike]

Fender IV "Mar Gaya" also plays with varying degrees of groove distortion, depending on the condition of the disc.
I have a ++ and it does play with some distortion. Mastered too loud, and styrene = Groovo-Distorto.

Paul Bearer & the Hearsemen "I've Been Thinking" another one with the levels pinned in the red, makes for a pleasurable Groovo-Distorto playback. Styrene being the helping hand here.

I've read posts from other collectors that insist all copies of the Rock Shop "Is That Your Halo" play with groove distortion.
Well, maybe, if you have a used copy. I have a M- copy and both sides play exceptional, with no GD. GD on the
Rock Shop 45 is caused by playback on crappy low-budget turntables / tonearms / cartridges. I have seen on-line posts of guys hawking 45s and they play them on those god-awful Califone players with 10 pound tonearms & construction nail stylus. Ahh....nothing like snowplowing the groove to smithereens with one spin. I'd never buy anything from those guys.

 

[Dave Baldwin]

When the guys in the Caretakers heard Hidden Steps for the 1st time they we totally pissed and threw out all their copies. When I used this track on UP FROM THE GRAVE I actually made it sound a bit better. Since it was in mono and both sides had the same music but not the same quality, I deleted the side (can't remember which side) with the most distortion and inserted the side with less distortion which made it a little more listenable. You can thank engineer Martin Ashley for the awful sound. He told me he knew the sound sucked on the master but he sent it to the pressing plant anyway because he didn't want to re-record it!!!

Your remaster sounds better than my NM 45.

 

[Dave Baldwin]

Fender IV "Mar Gaya" also plays with varying degrees of groove distortion, depending on the condition of the disc.
I have a ++ and it does play with some distortion. Mastered too loud, and styrene = Groovo-Distorto.

Paul Bearer & the Hearsemen "I've Been Thinking" another one with the levels pinned in the red, makes for a pleasurable Groovo-Distorto playback. Styrene being the helping hand here.

I've read posts from other collectors that insist all copies of the Rock Shop "Is That Your Halo" play with groove distortion.
Well, maybe, if you have a used copy. I have a M- copy and both sides play exceptional, with no GD. GD on the
Rock Shop 45 is caused by playback on crappy low-budget turntables / tonearms / cartridges. I have seen on-line posts of guys hawking 45s and they play them on those god-awful Califone players with 10 pound tonearms & construction nail stylus. Ahh....nothing like snowplowing the groove to smithereens with one spin. I'd never buy anything from those guys.

It's a chronic problem with 60s UK singles.
I call it "Dansette syndrome" because one
spin on those nasty vinyl grinders can instantly
make any Mint 45 a VG player. Try finding a
'clean' copy of a big UK "hit" single. It was easier
to get a mint-playing copy of 'Path Through The Forest'
than a clean Yardbirds UK press 'Heart Full Of Soul'!

 

[MopTopMike]

There is a sect of collectors, I call them the Retro Sect. These guys and gals collect anything and everything from a specific set time period and prefer, or insist, that no modern day devices be employed in the decor. You see pictures of their domiciles, with period-perfect furniture, rugs, appliances. Watch TV on a Philco. Play records on a Defiant portable player. All that matters with these folks is time period authenticity. To me, that is like living one's life inside a zoo / museum. Shades of the Twilight Zone episode that featured Roddy McDowell.
Hence, the "Dansette" syndrome. A Dansette record player is necessary if you are of the midset of "looks cool, used in the '60s but but sounds like shite" as compared to today's far better, tho lackluster looking equipment
It is amazing, when you think about it, to be able to find as many non store stock / unplayed 45s that were not ruined by lousy equipment of the times. Of course, popular hit singles suffer more from this than the non-hit obscurities most collectors like / want.
And I don't even wanna think about LPs.

 

[bosshoss]

It's a bit hard to tell sometimes, if a record is a primitive recording or victim of bad mastering. Some that come to mind are

Knightsmen on Ikon - ultra-trebly sound, virtually no bass, compared to the mastertape reissue
Young Souls on C.A.V.U. - incredibly lo-fi, although still great
Lords on Vance - as bad as Joey D sez.
The Stoics - Hate - weak and slightly distorted pressing, both sides. Sounds like faulty mastering. Not too bad compared to the others on this list.
By Fives - Same as the Stoics
Head & The Hares - both sides are distorted, even on mint copies.
Secrets - Something Good For Me (Raven) - muffled sound, may be the recording.
Hotbeats "Listen" on Rychard - the original recording is plagued with constant ultra-low frequency noise caused by a faulty mic cable. On lesser playback equipment this sounds like groove distortion but is not.
Sires on Graves - both sides sound very rough even on mint copies. Odd because all the other Graves 45s are ultra high fidelity.
Cavemen on Capitol Star Artists - Both sides of the 45 pressing are much rougher than the mastertape. Bad mastering.

 

[MopTopMike]

I think the Stoics and the Head & The Hares 45s were pressed from a mother disc that was played on a record player at the time prior to making the stampers. This would cause the noise heard on playback of a perfect copy.
The Renegades on Polaris is another example of the noisy / whoosh sound heard on playback.

Another possibility - the songs were recorded to lacquer discs (soft vinyl, acetates as they are referred to now) and these were used to make the stampers. If the lacquers were played prior to making the stampers, damage would be heard in all pressings from those stampers.

 

[Dave Baldwin]

It's a bit hard to tell sometimes, if a record is a primitive recording or victim of bad mastering. Some that come to mind are

Knightsmen on Ikon - ultra-trebly sound, virtually no bass, compared to the mastertape reissue
Young Souls on C.A.V.U. - incredibly lo-fi, although still great
Lords on Vance - as bad as Joey D sez.
The Stoics - Hate - weak and slightly distorted pressing, both sides. Sounds like faulty mastering. Not too bad compared to the others on this list.
By Fives - Same as the Stoics
Head & The Hares - both sides are distorted, even on mint copies.
Secrets - Something Good For Me (Raven) - muffled sound, may be the recording.
Hotbeats "Listen" on Rychard - the original recording is plagued with constant ultra-low frequency noise caused by a faulty mic cable. On lesser playback equipment this sounds like groove distortion but is not.
Sires on Graves - both sides sound very rough even on mint copies. Odd because all the other Graves 45s are ultra high fidelity.
Cavemen on Capitol Star Artists - Both sides of the 45 pressing are much rougher than the mastertape. Bad mastering.

The one that made me laugh out loud was Link Wray's 'Rumble '68' (Heavy). Sounds like the Wrays played a VG copy of the original Cadence
'Rumble' 45 on the old turntable in the chicken shack and dubbed that to one track on the master tape, while Roy Buchanan's harmonica overdub
is recorded to another track. Just mix down to mono and serve cold. Thank goodness the other side is a monster!

 

[MopTopMike]

Nearly everything on C.A.V.U. is lo-fi, I always remember the comment that these 45s sound as if the songs were recorded over a pay telephone mastered to a dictaphone. Phoenix Pyre, a great garage-a-delic two sider on C.A.V.U. has zero fidelity.
The owner must have upgraded equipment for mastering / recording by 1971, as the Midnight Rock "Hear My Band" 45 is in stereo and has improved, noticeable fidelity.

The Travel Agency on Zordan was mastered lo-fi, and at low volume.

 

[soundog III]

Barely on topic, but I thought this synopsis nominally relevant to the discussion.

 

[Frantic]

Barely on topic, but I thought this synopsis nominally relevant to the discussion.

View attachment 3921

What does Fresca have to do with this conversation?

 

[Dave Baldwin]

What does Fresca have to do with this conversation?

Nothing...but it's chilling that LBJ often had his finger on 'the button' back in 1966...

"President Lyndon Baines Johnson, a Fresca drinker, had dedicated signal boxes installed in his White House offices. These typically featured four buzzers: one to page his secretary, one for the Chief of Staff, and two for a military valet stationed in a small office next to the Oval Office. The valet would bring Johnson either a Fresca or coffee, depending on which button The President pushed".