Recent Crypt Digipak BFTG Reissues: Is There A Problem w/ the Treble?

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rontokyo

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I'm not starting this thread to stir up controversy or create problems for our host. Or denigrate the terrific work Tim Warren has done over the years at Crypt. With that said, I'm terribly disappointed with the recent Digipak BFTG reissues -- shocked is really more appropriate. The treble has been boosted to unnatural levels, creating an unpleasant listening experience.

I mentioned this fact on another thread and was seconded by another member, so I'm not alone here. I'd very much appreciate hearing from other members to get additional opinions.
 
Yes, I am that other member. Until the latest batch of BFTG reissues I was never less than 100 percent happy with any reissue that Tim Warren at Crypt put out. But to me, the new BFTG reissues sound kinda weak and thin. And I am playing them through a pair of studio monitor speakers via my computer that give an extra shot of oomph to even the weakest songs.

As I write this I am comparing "Dinah Wants Religion" from the original BFTG and the remixed version. The remix doesn't sound bad, probably better than how it would sound on many other comps, but the original is way brighter and punchier.

While I don't know that much (nor am I overly interested) in all the technicalities, I know that Tim has super top-of-the-line equipment that he uses to remaster everything. But many of these songs were recorded in somewhat primitive circumstances and may just not hold up well to such exacting mastering.

One of my favorite song titles comes from a Tom Petty song "Too Much Ain't Enough" but in this case I have to wonder if too much is just that. Too much.
 
Thanks, Jeff. I mentioned my concerns about the new Digipak reissues on a thread several weeks ago and didn't get any takers. I even uploaded a few tracks into my Dropbox so that members could compare for themselves, but again, no takers. The original BFTG vinyl and CDs sound fine to my ears. In the Digipak reissues, tambourines and cymbals, due to the treble boost, are now prominent in mix and many times overpower the other instruments.

As a note, I'd suggest being careful in how you describe the sonic characteristics of a particular track. Saying, ". . . the original is way brighter and punchier" [implying it sounds better] will get you in trouble as "brighter" implies top-end harshness, the very thing we both [I'm assuming] have noted in the Digipak reissues. But thanks for chiming in. I never felt that I was all alone on this score, but have felt that most members are reluctant to post anything resembling criticism of Crypt product. Understandable, but if no one speaks up the problem will never be corrected.
 
Thanks for bringing this up rontokyo. For those who don't know where the "other" thread is, it's here:

http://www.g45central.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-edition-of-bftg-4-cd-bundle.3564/

It was the recommendations on that thread which prompted me to buy the digipak in the first place, but having just come across this thread, I decided it was time to rip off the seal on one to audition it. Sadly, I have to agree with you: the sound is very sibilant, and unbalanced; it sounds like it was recorded using this turntable:
https://www.facebook.com/nachtbrakermusic/videos/1084279584947228/?pnref=story
 
I'll add a link to this thread from the original Digipak thread started by Massb. Maybe you should also add a link to your earlier thread, rontokyo.
 
rontokyo said:
I mentioned my concerns about the new Digipak reissues on a thread several weeks ago and didn't get any takers. I even uploaded a few tracks into my Dropbox so that members could compare for themselves, but again, no takers.
Click to expand...

That could be because that particular dropbox is missing: "We can't find what you're looking for".
 
I've uploaded the Monacles - I can't win from the Digipak as well as from the earlier CD issue, although the website compresses the data, you still get a reasonable idea of the original aif sound. To my ears CRYPT-003 sounds bright, very forward, and tiring on the ears. CR-0123 sounds hollow in comparison, but has far more presence (head room?), is better balanced and easier to listen to. My vote goes to the earlier recording.

CRYPT-003: https://clyp.it/px2waukt
CR-0123: https://clyp.it/edqckdrk

I have never recorded this 45, but here is a transfer of another record to illustrate what I was achieving on budget equipment 20 years ago with no technical knowledge. (recording is at a lower level, so adjust volume as necessary) https://clyp.it/pdnscb2e

Everyone's hearing is different: not only physically but mentally also. One's hearing deteriorates over time, and this loss of hearing is accelerated by exposure to elevated sound levels (industrial noise, rock concerts, etc). With normal age-related hearing loss, the high frequencies are the first to go; therefore, I would expect older listeners to tend to prefer brighter recordings. Anyway, the bottom line is that some will likely prefer the later recording, and some may perceive them both to be crap, and hope that Mark proceeds to digitise his entire collection.
 
Outside_Lookin_in said:
It was the recommendations on that thread which prompted me to buy the digipak in the first place . . .
Click to expand...

You and me both. The glowing reviews on that thread encouraged me to buy the complete set, replacing the vinyl and original CDs. The first one to arrive was Volume 7. I became aware that something was wrong with the very first track. Hoping that Volume 7 was somehow an anomaly, I unsealed Volume 1-2 when it arrived a few days later. Nope. No luck. The remaining volumes remain sealed.

Here's a like to my Dropbox with the three tracks I'd uploaded from Volume 7:
https://www.dropbox.com/sh/x89pby290onsu6a/AADQJ2Gu8-ycCuF8xgPGFBwia?dl=0
The Syndicate - Egyptian Thing
Puddin' Heads - Now You Say
The Syndicate - My Baby's Barefoot

For me, at least, it's not enjoyable listening to these new remastered editions as the high-end is unpleasant and fatiguing. When I've got a bit more time I'll upload the same three tracks from the first edition CDs.
 
I've uploaded the Monacles - I can't win from the Digipak as well as from the earlier CD issue, although the website compresses the data, you still get a reasonable idea of the original aif sound. To my ears CRYPT-003 sounds bright, very forward, and tiring on the ears. CR-0123 sounds hollow in comparison, but has far more presence (head room?), is better balanced and easier to listen to. My vote goes to the earlier recording.

CRYPT-003: https://clyp.it/px2waukt
CR-0123: https://clyp.it/edqckdrk
Click to expand...

The 1st version was mastered from the original pressing, where the mix is clean - this is the rare hard to find pressing (see / refer to the Monacles entry in TBM for further explanation).

The second version is the one that was used on the original Crypt BFTG pressings - the famed "Muffled version" that was the 2nd pressing, 45s repressed to give away and sell at Monacles performances. Some were pressed on colored vinyl. The reason for the muffled sound quality on the 45 is that:

the mother disc used to press the 45s was played like a 45rpm single a few times. Some people did this, for whatever reasons, or

A new mother disc was sourced from the original 45 pressing, and tweaked by the audio engineer.

It is difficult for me to compare using these two examples for excessive treble overload; perhaps someone could post a different track?

I prefer the original press of I Can't Win", the muffled version on 45, old BFTG vinyl or any digital issue is unlistenable. The example above sounds fine to my ears, tho I can immediately discern some tweaking in the high end as compared to the 45.

Is the treble overload present on the most recent vinyl pressings? Or was the latest remastering only done for the digipak release?
 
Outside_Lookin_in said:
I've uploaded the Monacles - I can't win from the Digipak as well as from the earlier CD issue, although the website compresses the data, you still get a reasonable idea of the original aif sound. To my ears CRYPT-003 sounds bright, very forward, and tiring on the ears. CR-0123 sounds hollow in comparison, but has far more presence (head room?), is better balanced and easier to listen to. My vote goes to the earlier recording.

CRYPT-003: https://clyp.it/px2waukt
CR-0123: https://clyp.it/edqckdrk
Click to expand...
As MTM pointed out, different copies were sourced for each BFTG edition, so no point comparing in terms of mastering. But that said, the early edition has no top-end at all while the Digipak version does -- in spades. The highs are extended much too much, unnaturally so. As a result, the high-hat becomes the most prominent "instrument" in the mix, something that I'm sure was not intended. That's a complaint I have for the remastered Digipak editions in general: tambourines, cymbals, high-hats, harmonicas, etc., overpower the mix overall.
 
MopTopMike said:
The example above sounds fine to my ears, tho I can immediately discern some tweaking in the high end as compared to the 45.
Click to expand...
You're referring to the Digipak remaster? Crypt-003? If so, you and I hear music very differently, I'm afraid. Whereas this track isn't as problematic as so many others are, the top-end is nevertheless the victim of needle-like brightness [for lack of a better descriptor]. And the song itself suffers with the drums/high-hat so prominent in the mix.

MopTopMike said:
Is the treble overload present on the most recent vinyl pressings? Or was the latest remastering only done for the digipak release?
Click to expand...
Assuming you've got the Digipak remasters, did you notice anything amiss with the top-end? Have you yourself noted the "treble overload"?

Were the vinyl editions all remastered?? Or are you referring to the recent volumes 9 & 10?
 
rontokyo said:
As MTM pointed out, different copies were sourced for each BFTG edition, so no point comparing in terms of mastering. But that said, the early edition has no top-end at all while the Digipak version does -- in spades. The highs are extended much too much, unnaturally so. As a result, the high-hat becomes the most prominent "instrument" in the mix, something that I'm sure was not intended. That's a complaint I have for the remastered Digipak editions in general: tambourines, cymbals, high-hats, harmonicas, etc., overpower the mix overall.
Click to expand...
Hey man....If it wasn't for Tim's hard work, traveling the highways and biways of America, logging in 1000s of miles and months of his time, these newest volumes wouldn't even exist. I remember in the past, crappy worthless boots got praised around here with no threads started to blast how bad they were but you gotta rag on Tim Warren's insanely cool new comps. I think they sound great!!! Tim is the king of this shit and was unearthing and releasing this stuff way back when some of you were still on yer ma's teet. I think this thread is bullshit and should be removed.
 
Frantic said:
Hey man....If it wasn't for Tim's hard work, traveling the highways and biways of America, logging in 1000s of miles and months of his time, these newest volumes wouldn't even exist. I remember in the past, crappy worthless boots got praised around here with no threads started to blast how bad they were but you gotta rag on Tim Warren's insanely cool new comps. I think they sound great!!! Tim is the king of this shit and was unearthing and releasing this stuff way back when some of you were still on yer ma's teet. I think this thread is bullshit and should be removed.
Click to expand...
Chill, my friend. If you read the first post in this thread you'd note I stated my admiration for all TW has done at Crypt. And yes, I'm aware of all the hard work hunting down and releasing this material requires. But whereas "Tim is the king of this shit," everyone makes mistakes and I'm afraid one was made with the Digipak remasters for reasons I've outlined above. You of course are free to disagree.

I'm listening to the most recent BossHoss remasters as I write this . . . and I'm grinning from ear to ear. These tracks sound so incredibly *natural* -- detailed, revealing and without any noticeable boost at either end. An absolute joy . . . which is what I was hoping for with the recent Digipak Crypt remasters after reading the BFTG thread where you and others raved about them.

As a note, I stopped sucking on ma's teet close to 68 years ago.
 
rontokyo said:
Chill, my friend. If you read the first post in this thread you'd note I stated my admiration for all TW has done at Crypt. And yes, I'm aware of all the hard work hunting down and releasing this material requires. But whereas "Tim is the king of this shit," everyone makes mistakes and I'm afraid one was made with the Digipak remasters for reasons I've outlined above. You of course are free to disagree.

I'm listening to the most recent BossHoss remasters as I write this . . . and I'm grinning from ear to ear. These tracks sound so incredibly *natural* -- detailed, revealing and without any noticeable boost at either end. An absolute joy . . . which is what I was hoping for with the recent Digipak Crypt remasters after reading the BFTG thread where you and others raved about them.

As a note, I stopped sucking on ma's teet close to 68 years ago.
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You didn't need to start a thread to prove your point. :flush:
 
Frantic said:
You didn't need to start a thread to prove your point. :flush:
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I didn't start this thread to prove a point but rather get other members' opinions. In fact, I sent you a PM in hopes we could share our thoughts privately, but you never replied.
 
rontokyo said:
I didn't start this thread to prove a point but rather get other members' opinions. In fact, I sent you a PM in hopes we could share our thoughts privately, but you never replied.
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I think it's just plain weird to create a thread to pick apart the coolest garage punk series that ever was.:madd:
 
MopTopMike said:
The 1st version was mastered from the original pressing, where the mix is clean - this is the rare hard to find pressing (see / refer to the Monacles entry in TBM for further explanation).

The second version is the one that was used on the original Crypt BFTG pressings - the famed "Muffled version" that was the 2nd pressing, 45s repressed to give away and sell at Monacles performances. Some were pressed on colored vinyl. The reason for the muffled sound quality on the 45 is that:

the mother disc used to press the 45s was played like a 45rpm single a few times. Some people did this, for whatever reasons, or

A new mother disc was sourced from the original 45 pressing, and tweaked by the audio engineer.

It is difficult for me to compare using these two examples for excessive treble overload; perhaps someone could post a different track?

I prefer the original press of I Can't Win", the muffled version on 45, old BFTG vinyl or any digital issue is unlistenable. The example above sounds fine to my ears, tho I can immediately discern some tweaking in the high end as compared to the 45.

Is the treble overload present on the most recent vinyl pressings? Or was the latest remastering only done for the digipak release?
Click to expand...

I totally forgot that minor detail about the two pressings of the Monacles. I actually have the first pressing (based on the description in the Monacles thread), so it's a pity my equipment is broken otherwise I could have included it in the samples.

I'm currently preparing samples of a Keggs song for comparison. I hate having to compress them to MP3's, but I'm not aware of any site which will allow aif playback, and rontokyo's dropbox still isn't working for me.

I only have the earliest BFTG vinyl issues, and can't play them anyway for reasons stated above. The top-heavy brightness is apparent generally, and is almost certainly due to the analogue extraction process, unless some kind of recalibration was performed after the a/dc stage.

Check below for links soon.
 
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