At The Club

soundog III

soundog III

Tennalaga Class
Joined
Apr 24, 2011
Location
New York
Greetings Ancient & Learned Newbies.

Shimmy Shimmy KO-KO-BOP:twistedevil:

Grate to have you onboard.

Scads of savoury recent posts have jostled my pulse to curious effect.:boggle:

Seasoned hailings to all ye' engaged yet reticent observers. Interesting to note this coincident exodus from lurking anonymity en masse...

Not that I presume to echo the sentiments of any other forum participants.

So, make yr' bones.:yup::nope:. Steak yr' clam. :crap:

The choice, as ever, likely will prove to be whatever...

Present a few ripping yarns that may not have yet, to date, been overly spun? Wild vinyl scores generally serve to get the acquisitive shoulda / woulda / coulda emotive juices roiling... Master SWAMPTHING defined this format with a post re: Allentown back when.... Groaned men quivered...

Simply treat us to some real time record collecting reportage.

A nominally representative recollection along these lines follows: I recall a high - life
focused collector recounted a classic collecting trip to Africa which paired the acquisition of several 100,000 45' with a presentation of road roasted Ghanian Grass Cooter. :mad: Lotsa gory details, yeah.

So dirty up this forum with ribald insights, recovered recollectionsn, tortuous defeats & down home feed, lest ye be knaves!
 
I have a story, which I don't think I've told before. Bandmembers names will be withheld to protect the innocent.

This happened many years ago. Once upon a time, I contacted buckeyebeat in my quest to find a copy of The Botumles Pit. At that stage I didn't know him and it was probably before the G45 forum existed. Mr. Buckeye declared that the only record he would trade the Botumles Pit for, was this certain Ohio monster which was hardly known to exist at the time (maybe 2 copies known). So I decided to switch my energies to finding a copy of that 45 so that I could possibly trade it for The Botumles Pit.

Many moons went by, and in the meantime I was able to acquire The Botumles Pit (and The Suedes as well!) from a well-known collector who decided to sell up. The Ohio monster was as elusive as ever, and finally I got a chance to hear it via an mp3 supplied by Professor Moptopmike. As soon as I heard it, I knew it was a 45 I needed2own. I actually wrote the official G45 entry describing that record a few minutes after I played Professor MTM's mp3 for the first time. I published a wantlist with the Ohio 45 at #1 on the list.

Many more moons went by, until I received a tip-off from someone on the forum, about the lead singer of the group who might have a copy of the 45 for sale. This tip-off included an email address. So, I was onto it straight away. It turns out the singer only had one copy of the 45, and didn't really want to sell it, unless it could be re-pressed so his children could have a copy. He also wanted me to make an offer, so of course I came straight out with a very generous one in the $$$multiple thousands , as this was a once in a lifetime opportunity. The 45 was a mint copy, probably the only known copy in that condition.

The singer was/is a nice guy, but extremely naive about the nature of collectible records. He wouldn't sell the record until a deal had been made to re-press 500 copies of the 45, which I had to arrange. This involved many emails between me, the singer and the record company which I had in mind. All this took quite a few months to finalise. After that, I had to supply high quality vinyl transfers and label scans. Doing this was a pleasure for me.

The killer moment came when the singer confided to me that he was very, very happy with the deal, because 500 copies x $3,000 was going to be a lot of money!! Could I please tell him what his share would be?
 
I found Docko in 1987 or 88, still living on Long Island. In those pre-historic days before the internet, this had been one of my easiest searches, merely a quick look through the Nassau County White Pages rather than countless hours in the NY Public Library phone book stacks.
I had three basic aims. First, of course, was the hope of scoring copies of the 5 singles for myself, with the hope of additional copies for resale, if available and feasible. Second was learning if any additional music was available. The thought of an unknown privately pressed Mystic Tide LP filled my daydreams. Last, I thought it would be cool to write an article about the band, at that time, thinking in terms of publication in Goldmine.
Docko was cordial, but I sensed he wasn’t particularly thrilled with having someone call up about the Tide. H answered my questions, but without much detail.
As far as copies of the 45s, he said he used to have a garage full of them, but had emptied the garage several years before and had tossed them. (More about this at the punchline.) He told me I should get in touch with the bass player, who also still lived on Long Island. (I did, but he didn’t have any.)
I asked if there was any unreleased music. He told me all they recorded was what came out on the singles. (We’ll get back to that at the punchline, too.)
I mentioned about writing something about the band for a music magazine, and he was amenable to that. He asked me to send a list of questions for what I’d like to cover and he would answer them. I did that, but never got a response.

The Punchline:
Several years later, Dave Brown released the LP on Distortions, including an unreleased track, followed not long after by the CD with many more unreleased tracks.
When I talked to Dave after the LP was out, and filled him in on my story. He told me that a couple of other people had contacted Docko prior to my conversation with him. The first was Vic Figlar. Figlar gave him a song and dance about needing copies of the 45s for his collection, got some very cheap and was selling them shortly after in Goldmine for $300 apiece ( I think I was told he paid $50 or $100 each). Apparently, Docko found out about this (maybe the next caller mentioned seeing them for sale), wasn’t too happy and decided to blow off any subsequent callers looking for copies (figuring they’d be as dishonest as Figlar).
Still, I always wondered how Dave managed to succeed.
 
Heitkotter77 said:
Figlar gave him a song and dance about needing copies of the 45s for his collection, got some very cheap and was selling them shortly after in Goldmine for $300 apiece ( I think I was told he paid $50 or $100 each). Apparently, Docko found out about this (maybe the next caller mentioned seeing them for sale), wasn’t too happy and decided to blow off any subsequent callers looking for copies (figuring they’d be as dishonest as Figlar).
Still, I always wondered how Dave managed to succeed.
Click to expand...
So you heard Figler paid $50-$100 and sold them for $300. First off you don't know for sure he paid that amount, but if he did, what would be dishonest about selling them for $300. I know a lot of bigtime collectors/sellers who have made a lot more than that on records, including me. ;)
 
I was home from work, feeling unwell, the day a set-sale list arrived.
At that time the days were long on the wane for set-sale mail lists. Most guys had gravitated to running ads in either Goldmine or Discoveries magazine. Still, there were a couple of old-school types hangin' tuff.

I trudged out to the mailbox. Had to be Jan or Feb. for the month, as it was a dark gray overcast, cold day outside. Returned to the house and opened the packet. The list was from a well-known dealer, and offered lots of 45s, broken down into sub-genres. The 60s garage section looked mediocre, but wait....$30 for a M- Barking Spyders?!?!? I was on the phone like pronto. The line was, as usual, busy. DAMMIT! No cell phone in those days, just the good old fashioned land-line.
Redialed. Busy. Crap.

Started looking thru the other portions of the catalog. The first portion was a catch all that listed mostly hits of the 50s and 60s. Scanning down, I fell off my chair when I spotted Adrian Lloyd on charger, VG DJ copy, $4 (!!!!!!)
Redialed again. Phone RINGS!

My dealer buddy answers, sez hello, and asks what I wanted. Mentioned Barking Spyders, and he said, "You got the last one. Tim Warren was just on the phone and bought the other 3 copies."
I then sorta downplayed Adrian Lloyd, saying there was an oddball one in the other section I wanted for $4. He checked and said, "You got it."
Of course, the next time I saw him in person, he had to mention that I scored the disc for next to nuthin': "Why doesn't somebody put out a price guide so guys like me don't get screwed???"

I couldn't believe my luck. Best cheap-o score I had ever gotten, beating out my infamous score of the Bees on Liverpool, with picture sleeve at the Austin Record show for a paltry $5.
 
So it's summer 1991 & I'm in Seattle for a few days, stopping off on my return from a trip to Japan to attend a record fair, possibly the first one ever held in Tokyo. It had been a great trip, I traveled the country a bit visiting out of the way shops in Osaka, Kobe, Kyoto, Hiroshima and a few other sundry & unpronounceable backwaters over the course of a week and a half. The culmination of the trip was the Tokyo show, where I had a table. I bought & sold &, as this was a sort of high water mark in the Japanese economy business had been quite good in both regards.

Upon my arrival in Seattle, where I had been once previously, I was sort of, well, record-ed out. ( Yes, I know, almost inconceivable but these be the facts) Anywas, saw the sights, wandered about a bit and as anyone familiar with Seattle will likely attest inevitably arrived at that warren known as Pike Street market. This is a marketplace right by the bay in the center of town, primarily known as a food & produce marketplace spread out over a number of buildings on several levels. Filled with small shops, cafes, and stalls the place was an Aladdins' cave for allsorts of odds & ends. Similar to what the Camden or Kensington markets are/were to London, or the street markets to the Netherlands, marches des Puce to Paris, etc...

After an hour or so of wandering about I came upon a bookshop. OK, this might be worth a rummage for vinyl or mags? Well it certainly was if ones taste ran to back issues of Colliers or easy listening records. Inquiring regarding records he pointed to the bins which yielded nothing of interest in either long or not so long playing formats. The proprietor, an older academic type was a bit stand-offish, but nice enough in accommodating my requests to look in & under counters, boxes on top shelves, etc... After half an hour or so of fruitless rummaging I came upon a box of 7" buried deep under a formidable run of back issues of National Geographic. Optimistic to a fault I dug deep into a splendid array of Perry Como, Anita O'Day and Mitch Miller EP's. Hmmm, not precisely what I was hoping to find. But reasonably priced, I suppose, at a dollar or two each. Then, WOAH, a Mint copy of Pink Floyd - See Emily Play US promo with Picture Sleeve! No price sticker on it. Trembling I continued on. Two more copies magically appear. I can't believe this! Too good to be true!!

I bring one copy to the counter and ask the price.

Hmmm, not sure said the owner, I'll have to look this up.

He references some sort of price guide, it wasn't in there, so he's hesitant to quote a price. He arrives at a solution after a moment of thinking, and calls up a friend / associate / member of the younger generation / whomever and asks about the record. From the half of the conversation I can hear the words Wall & Dark Side can be discerned. Fellow hangs up and advises me that Pink Floyd are a VERY popular group. He finds an issue of Billboard from the eighties and points out to me that their LP's The Wall and Dark Side Of The Moon have been in the charts for years and are very important records. I nod in acquiescence at this, concurring. He looks at the 45 and remarks that this is older, released before the famous albums.

I agree, replying it's from the sixties before they were very popular.

Well, then it might be a collectors item.

Sure, somebody might want to collect this I respond.

Well, if your interested in Pink Floyd I might have some albums in the back room. Sure enough a nice scratchy Wall album soon appears with a $15.00 price sticker on it. I mention that I'm travelling and really don't want to lug LP's around with me. ( Which was true, i had shipped several hundred home from Japan.) He appeared disappointed that his big Pink Floyd LP sale opportunity was fading away...

OK, if you really want this single you can have it for $10.00, which represented a premium of about 500% over the vast bulk of his 7" vinyl stock.

I breathe deeply, pondering the offer, and agree. $10.00 passes over the counter and the deal is done. I'll just look around a bit more, I mention and the fellow, having made the vinyl sale of a lifetime shrugs & goes back to cataloging a bunch of books. After a few minutes I come back to the counter with the two additional copies.


Why do you want more than one, he inquires. Oh, I'll buy these extras for friends I reply. Well, the fellow says, I suppose it can't be that rare if you found two more copies, and proceeds to quote $15 for the two. Deal done, I depart the shop with what was unquestionably the best score I ever found in the wild. Was only a number of years later when, after selling a copy to a European dealer did I factor in that the stopover in the bookstore paid for the entire trip to Japan with a copy left over for the collection!
 
Frantic said:
So you heard Figler paid $50-$100 and sold them for $300. First off you don't know for sure he paid that amount, but if he did, what would be dishonest about selling them for $300. I know a lot of bigtime collectors/sellers who have made a lot more than that on records, including me. ;)
Click to expand...

Why does your focus always seem to be on the money? ;)
It's not so much what he paid; what's more important is that Figlar lied to Docko about wanting the records for himself (and probably lied about value) and instead very quickly put them up for sale. That was the song and dance I referred to; thought that was easy to see.
That amount was the figure that was floating around the east coast singles collectors scene back then, from which Brown heard it. Obviously Figlar must have told some one, who told some one, etc, who told Dave Brown, who told me.
 
MopTopMike said:
I couldn't believe my luck. Best cheap-o score I had ever gotten, beating out my infamous score of the Bees on Liverpool, with picture sleeve at the Austin Record show for a paltry $5.
Click to expand...

Of course, mentioning the Bees reminds me of the classic Count story.
The Count had a copy with picture sleeve, which he sold to a known local collector for $40, after which he found out it was worth more.
One of the first times I dealt with him for singles, he asked me if I knew the Bees. After saying I did, he asked me about value. I hemmed and hawed a bit, then he said he heard it was worth $600 (this was the late 80s), and proceeded to tell me the story of selling it for $40, which I'd already heard.
Every show I was at after this, he would tell me the same story again. It became a running joke. Around this time, I got to know Ray Reynolds and when the Count was mentioned, Ray said he also kept hearing the story every show. It got to the point in the early 90s when we were both selling at a number of NJ shows where the Count was also set up, in the afternoon when the show got slow, one of us would atart talking to the Count and casually say the word Bees and get him going for some entertainment. I used to set up with Paul Major, so Paul was involved in the fun as well.

More about the Count. I used to see him at various shows from the late 80s through the 90s when he became personna non grata with almost every northeast show promoter.
I bought a good amount of singles from him, having the opportunity to play them in that crappy little stick he brought with him, put together a pile, then knock down his inflated prices to a reasonable amount.
There was only one record I ever bought from him that I didn't dicker of the price. It was an unlabeled acetate in so-so condition that was labelled on the white sleeve as heavy fuzz psych. I played it and it was two sides of some of the crudest and most inept garage I 'd heard. I still have this.
Look it up in TBM under "Wombats" (and f*** all of you who only rated it 6 :p), and check it out on the Norton acetate series Vol. 3.
 
Back in the late 70's the Count was actually reasonable.This was when the doo wop guys dominated the record shows and garage stuff was considered junk.
He had $2 and $3 boxes of "junk" singles at the Philadelphia shows and I pulled out lots of good stuff: Bounty Hunters on Romain, Bruthers, Ascendors, Enfields, Age of Reason, Young Monkey Men, Magic Mushrooms, lots of local Philly labels.
As annoying as the Count is I have to give him credit for the effort he puts into looking for records. I've seen him at crummy little flea markets in the middle of nowhere out looking for records, trudging around with a LP record case which he uses as a seat while he looks through records. He also carries his "want list" (a heavily taped up price guide) so he can pretend he's looking to see if he has a record when he's checking the price.
 
Heitkotter77 said:
Why does your focus always seem to be on the money? ;)
It's not so much what he paid; what's more important is that Figlar lied to Docko about wanting the records for himself (and probably lied about value) and instead very quickly put them up for sale. That was the song and dance I referred to; thought that was easy to see.
That amount was the figure that was floating around the east coast singles collectors scene back then, from which Brown heard it. Obviously Figlar must have told some one, who told some one, etc, who told Dave Brown, who told me.
Click to expand...
Were you there? No...Then you don't know what happened. You are the one that brought up money, I'm just saying sooner or later everyone buys rare records on the cheap or are given copies, what's the difference if they keep them or sell them? Plenty of guys have bought quantity over the years. Are they all dishonest? Sounds like jealousy to me.
 
Frantic said:
Were you there? No...Then you don't know what happened. You are the one that brought up money, I'm just saying sooner or later everyone buys rare records on the cheap or are given copies, what's the difference if they keep them or sell them? Plenty of guys have bought quantity over the years. Are they all dishonest? Sounds like jealousy to me.
Click to expand...

I mentioned it because it was part of the story.The main part about Figlar was the dishonesty he displayed in his intentions portrayed to Docko; that seemed to affect future dealings with him (Docko). You didn't even seem to pay attention to that.
You focused in on money and nothing but money. This isn't the first time you've replied to a post of mine and got hung up on the money aspect; not just my posting either.

This thread was supposed to be about telling some old stories. Why did you come on and start being so contentious? Be constructive, not destructive. Contribute, don't just spew verbal diarrhea across it. Tell us a story of yours.
 
Frantic said:
Were you there? No...Then you don't know what happened. You are the one that brought up money, I'm just saying sooner or later everyone buys rare records on the cheap or are given copies, what's the difference if they keep them or sell them? Plenty of guys have bought quantity over the years. Are they all dishonest? Sounds like jealousy to me.
Click to expand...

I wasn't there, but that doesn't prove it didn't happen. Were you there? Then you don't know what did happen. There was enough circumstantial evidence around to validate the story (i.e., people who knew Figlar and said this was exactly his kind of move).
And how do you go from me not liking the sleazy moves of ONE person into the inference that I would think all quantity finders are dishonest? Or are you projecting your own feelings onto others?

No jealousy. Those who know me know that is the farthest though from my way of thinking. You know nothing about me.
By the way, I've had more than my share of quantity finds of psych private presses; I did my share of tracking back in the day.
To follow my own advice, I'll get back to being constructive and add a few more.
Maybe I'll even tell the full version of my Windi story.
 
Heitkotter77 said:
I mentioned it because it was part of the story.The main part about Figlar was the dishonesty he displayed in his intentions portrayed to Docko; that seemed to affect future dealings with him (Docko). You didn't even seem to pay attention to that.
You focused in on money and nothing but money. This isn't the first time you've replied to a post of mine and got hung up on the money aspect; not just my posting either.

This thread was supposed to be about telling some old stories. Why did you come on and start being so contentious? Be constructive, not destructive. Contribute, don't just spew verbal diarrhea across it. Tell us a story of yours.
Click to expand...
Listen bub, you are the one calling someone dishonest (Figlar) And you brought up money in your story. I just repeated what you wrote. What the hell are you talking about. Stories about cool finds are one thing but your story blasted a guy who is not here to defend himself and your story looks like it's based on hearsay. You did use the word probably which means you are not sure and you said you heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy...fuck that!!!
 
Heitkotter77 said:
By the way, I've had more than my share of quantity finds of psych private presses; I did my share of tracking back in the day.
Click to expand...
And you never made a bunch of money on those quantity finds? Or traded for high priced records? I don't know Figlar from Adam, but he has the right to get what ever he wants for his records. A lot of big time collectors are glad there are guys like Figlar and I who dig this rare stuff up so they can buy them for their collections.
 
Frantic said:
And you never made a bunch of money on those quantity finds? Or traded for high priced records? I don't know Figlar from Adam, but he has the right to get what ever he wants for his records. A lot of big time collectors are glad there are guys like Figlar and I who dig this rare stuff up so they can buy them for their collections.
Click to expand...

I paid the artists what I felt was a fair price to both of us. If I found I could get more, I gave more to the artist.
Now, when i sell a record from obtained from an artist, I split the money with them.

It's great to be able to source records from the artists and make them available to collectors and make a reasonable profit for one's efforts, but be honest and honorable. Not everyone is.
For someone who spouts off regularly (and rightfully) about artists getting their due royalties on reissues, why don't you apply that same standard to original copies instead of making excuses?

Tell me,how much did Bob from Cotton and Mud get for the single you sold on eBay?
 
Heitkotter77 said:
I paid the artists what I felt was a fair price to both of us. If I found I could get more, I gave more to the artist.
Now, when i sell a record from obtained from an artist, I split the money with them.

It's great to be able to source records from the artists and make them available to collectors and make a reasonable profit for one's efforts, but be honest and honorable. Not everyone is.
For someone who spouts off regularly (and rightfully) about artists getting their due royalties on reissues, why don't you apply that same standard to original copies instead of making excuses?

Tell me,how much did Bob from Cotton and Mud get for the single you sold on eBay?
Click to expand...
I never bought anything from Bob. However he was cool enough to come to my house and let me scan his photos. I got that record from Bill Rase (FOR FREE) who owned the studio where it was recorded. Bob had no copies, so stop trying to stir up shit you have no knowledge of...got it!!! I contacted Bob years after I discovered that 45. It took me almost 10 years to find him. Seems like you get pissed everytime someone locates a band before you do.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.