David 40 Miles / People Saying, People Seeing

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A robust set sale/auction scene here would definitely push traffic on this site. PayPal is an overregulated disaster...Discogs is going the same direction...Goldmine/Discoveries/Record Collector are distant memories. For people like me that quit Fuckbook when Zuck became a cuck, it
would be a great resource. I've been doing set sales here for the past couple of years and all of the deals went down without a hitch. Hey
Joey, please let me know if you ever have a spare copy of the Jewish Racing Team 45 coming up for sale...(lol)
 
While The David is a topic here, I was wondering.
Has anyone heard the song "Bus Token?"
Everything I've heard from this group is (in my opinion) way above average and am very curious about this song - which I've yet to hear.
 
Thanks Joey for pointing me towards this topic which I had missed. The auction idea sounds good, but I'm sure there will be lots of "unforseen circumstances" unless it's planned properly. My biggest hope is that potential disagreements about bids and money will not spoil the priceless G45 creed of friendship, trust and tolerance between members. That wouldn't happen between existing members, but if it opens up to a much wider audience, then it could happen unless the rules are firmly set.

There's no way everyone will exactly agree with a format, so we will take ideas from everyone, then MTM and I will make the final decisions on the rules after reading all the suggestions.

One question to consider:
If someone is selling or auctioning lots of records, should they be limited to one record per new topic? Combining several records into one thread could be very confusing. But 100 new topics for 100 new records would also be confusing. Some of us may have hundreds of duplicates to sell..if they could be bothered packing and posting them! :icon_lol: Having a few records for sale at the same time could attract more international sales by combining postage. I know that I rarely buy one record at a time any more, because the postage is too expensive for one record.
 
Outside_Lookin_in said:
I think for "auctions", you should be able to bid any amount, but the amount you have to pay should you win, will be capped at 10% (or 20% if people prefer) over the second highest bid. This would avoid having to wait and watch and keep rebidding.
Click to expand...

I can see a problem with this. Imagine this extreme case for a record worth roughly $1000. Imagine these bids

Bid #1 - $150
Bid #2 - $400
Bid #3 - $50,000

The guy playing dirty by making the $50,000 bid would be certain to win. He would only pay $400 plus 20% = $480, for a record worth $1000, while locking everyone else out. But if someone else wanted to play double dirty, they could bid as follows, having seen the $50,000 bid

Bid #4 - $40,000

deliberately forcing the $50,000 bidder to pay $40,000 plus 20% = $48,000. A system that would allow dirty play such as this can not be a good system. High bidders could totally dominate the bidding unfairly, and low bidders could punish high bidders out of spite with no risk to themselves.

Something similar to this actually used to happen in the early days of eBay before eSnipe existed. Some guy would deliberately bid up to your maximum bid until they broke it, then cancel their bid, leaving you to pay your maximum bid. Happened to me more than once.
 
Problem 2 can be avoided by not allowing bids lower than the highest bid. Problem 1 can be avoided by having the bids hidden until auction's end.
 
But if you don't allow bids lower than the highest bid, the $50,000 bidder wins for $480, and can not be challenged even if someone is willing to pay $2000.

Having bids hidden is a good idea, but hard to do. It would not encourage high bidding because there would be no reference point. You might as well just have offers and it wouldn't really be an auction. It would be like a Barry W auction without the minimum bid. If you had no minimum bid and no bidding updates, it would be bad for sellers, because bids would probably stay low. Unless the minimum bid was already the fair price, in which case you may as well just have a set sale.

I am beginning to think there are only 2 viable options :

Option 1 - offers only (with an optional minimum bid), with a time limit, and the seller having the right to refuse to sell if the offers are too low. All offers are binding and the highest one represents the final price, if accepted.
I think the 20% bid topping rule should be capped at $100, and only apply in the last 24 hours of the auction. In the first few days, there should be no limit on offers. That would better encourage bidding to proceed in the early stages and minimize the need for mental arithmetic.

Option 2 - a full featured online auction system like AuctionWorx
 
My view on the Bids vs. Offers discussion:

Bids - all bids should be out in the open - posted , not hidden. A minimum 20% overbid required after first opening bid.

Advantages:
Prevents small incremental (annoying) bidding. Everyone knows the current high bid, and bidder.
Decreases instances of last minute bidding. No lockouts with exorbitant high bid.
High bidder has to honor their full bid, no reductions.

Maximum 5 day time limit, end time determined by seller. Personally, I think 3 days is sufficient.

As I mentioned previously, if you really want something, bid what it is worth to you. I see no need to keep increasing my bid time and time again if there is something I want to get. If I bid $300 on a $100 min bid as the opening, next bidder has to bid at least $360 , otherwise, I win.
However, if someone else ups the bid to $1,000 for the 45, the next bidder has to offer $1,200. Am I "locked out", as some will suggest? No, because I bid what the 45 is worth to me. If someone else desires it more, fine with me.


Offers - Seller reserves the right to retract item if seller does not agree with any offer, or it can be dealt as a combination cash & trade between parties.
Again, all offer items should show the cash offer posted, not hidden.

Regarding sales - one thread / post per seller no matter how many 45s are being auctioned / set sale, etc. I doubt anyone will have more than, say, 10 items at any one time.
 
I'm willing to give MTM's method a try. It has the benefit of simplicity. Whether it works or not will become obvious after the first few auctions.
I assume MTM's method allows for two separate types of deal, auctions and offers. Auctions would start with a minimum bid and sellers/buyers would be bound to sell/buy at the price determined by the winning bid. With offers, the seller would not be bound to sell for the highest offer.

Hopefully I got that correct? (regular set sale would obviously remain as a third option).
 
13th Floor Garage said:
While The David is a topic here, I was wondering.
Has anyone heard the song "Bus Token?"
Everything I've heard from this group is (in my opinion) way above average and am very curious about this song - which I've yet to hear.
Click to expand...
I've never seen it or heard it or seen a label scan. If it exists at all, it would have to be in the same category as the Remains first 45 "Talkin Bout You". That is, one or two copies in existence, or pressed but never released.
 
bosshoss said:
Hopefully I got that correct? (regular set sale would obviously remain as a third option).
Click to expand...

Hopefully, I'm not making this too complicated. There can be two possibilities for set sales.
One would be the basic set sale. Seller sets price; someone either pays that, or no one goes for it.
The second option could be a set sale or best offer. Within that the seller has the option of allowing offers immediately; or, can have it up and if no one goes for it for a certain period of time (3 days or a week or whatever), then best offers could be made.
 
Heitkotter77 said:
Hopefully, I'm not making this too complicated. There can be two possibilities for set sales.
One would be the basic set sale. Seller sets price; someone either pays that, or no one goes for it.
The second option could be a set sale or best offer. Within that the seller has the option of allowing offers immediately; or, can have it up and if no one goes for it for a certain period of time (3 days or a week or whatever), then best offers could be made.
Click to expand...

Neat...clean...and (potentially) more "drama-free" than some other bidding systems.
 
I personally think all bids and offers should be visible in the comments section like there are in many of the FB sites so everything is in the open. It prevents misunderstandings and complications when disputes arise.
 
I like Mark's option 1. 20% min increase is okay up to a point, then quickly becomes too large a jump exceeding even market variance in price. After $100 it should be a min. $20 increase, and $50 min. over $1,000. Auction deadline should be up to the seller, but perhaps capped at 1 month. End time should be verifiable.

Option 2 sounds expensive to implement, but would be good as long as the seller has right of refusal if he's not satisfied with the highest bid.
 
mr. splendid said:
The difference to FB is that nobody here goes under his real name and you could even have a couple of ID's here .... Remember the influx of new members during the Marek listings ?
BTW - how about giving this topic it's own thread ?
Click to expand...

We could have a system where no-one was allowed to participate in an auction or offer, until they provided their real name in the thread. Or if they won't provide it, buyers can bid at their own peril.

A potential limiting factor for buyers is the G45Central registering procedure. You have to answer a question which is easy for garage fiends, but the general public might find it too hard and give up. For example, a potential bidder in a UK R&B auction might not know about Randy Alvey.

Since the latest software upgrade, it's no longer possible to split a thread. The best I could do was re-name it.
 
I personally loathe set sales.
I am not addicted / attached to the internet/ phone 24-7 so set sales serve no purpose for me.
If I happen to be on line when a set sale list is sent to my e-mail chances are I might be able to buy something. More often than not, it is a waste of time to even bother with set sales. Even when I was on Facebook 7 years ago as a member of various record sale groups, I could never "win" a set sale item I wanted. It was gone in seconds before I even saw the listing.

If people want to offer 45s by set sale here, feel free. I prefer auctions for sought-after, less common 45s.

Ouitside Lookin In's suggestion of $20 and $50 bid increments are far too low. Ditto for a lengthy run time. Makes an auction tedious to participate and follow.

I like a clean, lean auction with focused bidders going full bore, not an auction with guys "nickel & dime-ing" bids back and forth by $5 or $10. I'd rather have someone come along and set the bar high, with a subsequent bid of at least 20% above the bid. a 20% bid increase also repels the annoying record pimps out there. They won't be able to resell for enough of a profit - the 45 for auction should go directly to a collector.

Lastly, if I or someone else starts listing sought-after items, we are naturally going to witness an influx of eventual non-participating members - those who join up for the sole purpose of buying, with zero intention to contribute to the G45forum. I think it is difficult to keep this forum fresh, topical and moving ahead as it is as 2021 looms - most topics of interest in G45 fandom have been discussed in detail, whether in this forum, or via archived posts published on the original forum. Thankfully, Mark was able to save a good portion of the old forum, 'tho some discussions are now lost in the 'net ether.

I have no qualms about people who join in the near future and identify with screen names, nicknames, or their real names when it comes to bidding activity. As long as they pay according to the seller's terms, and follow the rules of acutions that we eventually agree upon.
 
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