Did I Do Something Wrong ?

[Eye4Get]

This post concerns a recent visit to a record store.
There's a record store 10 miles from here. It's one of those hole - in - the - wall places with boxes full of 45s in the back. We're talking thousands upon thousands of them, jammed in every which way. I hadn't visited in a few years, but it was a place I knew well. My first visit had been in 1994, and I had been back many, many times up through 2008 or so. Most of those records didn't even have price tags on them. I used to buy 10 or so at a time, at two bucks a piece, and they were usually pretty scratched up. Sometimes they were so scratched up they'd give a couple to me for free. So I was basically buying worthless records, but I really enjoyed listening to them. I managed to dig up enough garage obscurities to probably break even in terms of money spent. ( They usually sold the garage ones to me cheap as well.)
The other day, I went back. This time my intention was profit, not just the sheer joy of listening. I was looking for northern soul and perhaps garage. I had a plan. I sifted through records, and set aside any that looked promising. I asked the clerk if I could borrow a pen, telling him up front that I wanted to write the names of the records down and then go home and check 'em out. He acted totally OK with this. I wrote down about 100 records. The store was closing, so I placed my stack in a particular box of records, intending to come back in a day or two.This sifting and writing process took me a few hours.
I went home and found out what I could about the records. This also took me a few hours. I circled 12 or so as possible "sound investments." Yes, its true. I was planning to buy them and sell them on eBay. I'll admit it, I was hoping the store would sell them to me pretty cheap so I could make some money.
I returned two days later , and there was a different clerk there. I went back to my stack of records, and selected about a dozen. I took my records up front and the clerk gave them a real good once - over. He told me he would have to confer with his manager about what to sell these records for.( " A lot of these are from really obscure labels." he said) He also said " We've been having people take premium records from the front of the store and hide them in the back, then bring them up front and attempt to buy them cheap."(Was he calling me a thief, or just saying I may have inadvertently picked up some "premiums"?) This was not what I had done, the records I had found were in the back of the store, and that's where I placed them when I left two days earlier. He put the records in a brown paper bag and wrote my name on them. He told me the manager would be there in two days from now and would take a look at them. I could come in then and buy them. The guy seemed nice enough, and me being a nice guy thanked him and went on my way. To his credit, he gave me a free plastic record spacer just for asking.
When I got home, I had some sort of delayed anger attack. I couldn't get over the words " We've been having people take premium records from the front and hide them in the back." I hadn't done that. Was he saying I might be a thief?( The only other time this store had delayed selling me a record was years ago. I had found a Yma Sumac 45 with a beautiful gatefold cardboard cover. The clerk back then told me he'd have to ask his boss about that one, or he said I could buy it for 40 bucks. I declined paying 40 bucks.) It also angered me that I would have to turn around and drive all the way back there just to do something I should have been allowed to do when I brought the records to the counter.
I found myself becoming angry, with the growing sense that I had been mistreated. At home, I called the store and told the clerk who I was. I told him I wanted to contact his manager.He told me the manager did not have a cell phone and would be unreachable until two days from now, when he would be in the store. I told him that sending someone home to wait for a proper price, then having them come back, was crappy. I also told him I sure as hell didn't like him insinuating that I was a possible thief. "I'm sorry if you feel offended. I wasn't saying you might be be a thief." (Oh, really? Even if he was saying I might have inadvertently picked up some misplaced premium records, how was that my fault? ) He also told me that they sometimes delay sales to customers in this manner, so the manager can look at the records. I told him that was ridiculous and I should be able to buy the records while I'm there. I told him it was a major inconvenience. "Im sorry if you feel inconvenienced.." "FEEL inconvenienced? I was inconvenienced." "Well, I have to let the manager see records sometimes, and he wasnt here today."
"So what are YOU there for ?"
"Oh, I guess I should just quit my job then." he whined.
He'd already sent me home, sort of implied I was a thief, and now he was guilt tripping me. I fell for it and back pedaled, saying I was angry at management for setting this policy, not him.
The conversation went on a bit longer and he hung up on me saying something like " I have to help another customer."
So what should I make of this? Was I in the wrong for going home to check the records out and returning for the "stash" ? Was this a serious faux pas ? Had I done something bad ?
Or was did this place have a crappy way of doing business and a crappy clerk? I'd been going to this place for years, told friends about it, RECCOMENDED the place to other collectors. And now this?
As it now stands, I plan to go there in a few days and have a serious talk with that manager and ask for a really good deal on those records. I feel I've been done wrong.
Or have I ?
I didn't mean for this post to be a whole novel, but it just ended up that way.

 

[MopTopMike]

The records were not priced.
You did not know the values, nor did the clerk.
If you were knowledgeable about the values of the records, you could have made a reasonable offer in hopes of purchasing the lot the first time.
The records are the property of the store, to do with as they please.
It is your decision to patronize the store, or not, based upon their actions. They do not owe you anything.
Why do people think they are entitled to make a profit when buying records from a record store?

 

[Frantic]

The records were not priced.
You did not know the values, nor did the clerk.
If you were knowledgeable about the values of the records, you could have made a reasonable offer in hopes of purchasing the lot the first time.
The records are the property of the store, to do with as they please.
It is your decision to patronize the store, or not, based upon their actions. They do not owe you anything.
Why do people think they are entitled to make a profit when buying records from a record store?

BAM...Mikey swoops in and reads my mind once again. Devious minds think alike! Ha! Knowledge is money and power. I think it's totally fair to know more than someone else and take advantage of that. But once you left those records there and gave the owner time to look through them you have put the ball in his court and you probably will end up not liking the end result. I'm sure he's seen many buyers do just what you did, write down titles and go home and check them out. But I guarantee you he knows what you are up to. And he won't allow you to take advantage of him when all is said and done. I wouldn't either. Spend decades learning this stuff like Mike and others then you can go in a store like this and use it to your advantage. Til then, be prepared to be angry...A LOT! Now here's what really pissed me off about 10 years ago. I drive up to Reno, Nv. and ask the owner if I can go through 1000s of 45s behind the counter. I tell him I've driven 120 miles up the mountain from Sacramento and he says cool. I spend hours going through the records and pull out around 25 so-so 45s. I ask the guy behind the counter to get the manager and he tells me that he left early today and that he couldn't price them and that I would have to come back tomorrow. Knowing I was in town for just that day the manager could have told me when I arrived that he was leaving early so we could work out a deal. or at least say I'm leaving now so let's make a deal. So I ended up with zilch after spending a half a day in his shop. I have never been back since. Now this is a reason to be pissed!

 

[Hicksville Hogwash]

HAd a similar thing at a junk store in NC. I picked through a pile of crap, for a hour and had the junk guy pull out a price guide and started pricing the pile of 45's I had chosen. My wife was visibly getting pissed as he fumbled through his book slowly. Ahh a $12 dollar record (scratched to fuck) you can have it for $10. I was not going to stand there another hour while he priced the only decent records in his store, so I made an offer, pretty fair as I remember he declined, suspecting I'd found real treasure, I guess. he took my number and said he'd call with a price. By the time he called I'd looked up the records I remembered myself and refused to buy the late 60's dross I'd a gone home with. Works both ways.

Another secondhand store once gave me 2 huge boxes of leftover soul 45's, that I had picked through a few times, for free, just for sending others to look through the boxes.

I'd advise hit and run next time, risk the chance of buying some crap right from the start. You were kind of foolish to let the first assistant know you'd be back if any were valuable.

I always ask how much are the 45's first, recently on holiday a record/head shop, the assistant said he loves the 13th Floor Elevators... he seemed surprised to find another lover of them. I left him a pile of common but good garage I'd found but got already (Standells, Blues Magoos.... ) I went back a few days later to find those 45's back in the back where I found them. Can't educate some kids at all.

 

[Eye4Get]

Interesting replies everyone, thank you. You're right, they're under no obligation.... But I still think they could run their business in a more above-board manner. As such, I'll probably vote with my feet and find another store. I'm under no obligation to patronize them, either.
Funny how two of you guys had similar stories. Frantic, your story wins hands down !
These stores ought to hire someone to go through records all day and price them...not bad work if you can get it.

 

[Heitkotter77]

The records were not priced.
You did not know the values, nor did the clerk.
If you were knowledgeable about the values of the records, you could have made a reasonable offer in hopes of purchasing the lot the first time.
The records are the property of the store, to do with as they please.
It is your decision to patronize the store, or not, based upon their actions. They do not owe you anything.
Why do people think they are entitled to make a profit when buying records from a record store?

To add to what Mike said, why isn' t the storeowner allowed to check the records and make his own profit if that was your intent? What you're saying above is the old "do as I say, not as I do".

It would have been one thing if you were prepared to buy the records when you pulled them. Then if the owner had said to come back another day, and used the time to research them (which as you can see from the posts above, does happen), you'd have a right to be pissed off. But since you want to do your own research, you have to give the store owner that same opportunity. You forfeit the right to complain. All you can do is decide whether you want to pay his price.
In a case like that, you're better off with the hit and run method as suggested. If the owner sees you're willing to buy a large lot and he's reasonable, chances are he'll give you a fine deal. it's also a good way to learn about what you like and don't like and fun to take a few risks. Little risk, little reward.

Also, what hurt you was that the first day you pulled about 100 singles, then you came back and pulled only 12. That isn't a great m.o. to get a store owner to work with you on a good deal. The basic rule of thumb here is the more you buy, the bigger the discount.

 

[Heitkotter77]

Interesting replies everyone, thank you. You're right, they're under no obligation.... But I still think they could run their business in a more above-board manner. As such, I'll probably vote with my feet and find another store. I'm under no obligation to patronize them, either.
Funny how two of you guys had similar stories. Frantic, your story wins hands down !
These stores ought to hire someone to go through records all day and price them...not bad work if you can get it.

There's some truth in that. I like to see a store owner (or a dealer at a record show) price his records if he intends to charge any type of heavier value. If I see everything unpriced, I expect the records to either have bargain bin prices or if he wants any kind of collector value, a substantial reduction from the market price.
Unfortunately, just as there are buyers who think they are entitled to make a profit on everthingthey buy, there are sellers who think they can use the customers to tell them which are the records of value instead of doing all the work themselves or hiring someone as you suggest.
Everything is a two-way street.

The bottom line for a buyer is that you can't force the seller to sell me a record at my price and he can't force you to buy it at his.

 

[Eye4Get]

Unfortunately, just as there are buyers who think they are entitled to make a profit on everything they buy, there are sellers who think they can use the customers to tell them which are the records of value instead of doing all the work themselves or hiring someone as you suggest.
.....exactly ! The truth is that price tags exist almost everywhere. Their presence is an indicator of compromise and "fair play" between seller and buyer. The fact that they don't exist in some record stores is a bit problematic. The lack of price tags leads to several possible conclusions, none of which are good.
The guy on the phone told me that they couldn't possibly put a price tag on so many records. Sure they could, and they'd probably have a lot of fun in the process.

 

[buckeyebeat]

Short lesson from someone who has been buying obscure used records for 34 years - buy the stack in hand, get some stinkers, consider them loss leaders and cheap education and enjoy the good ones. Whatever happened to buying records you see that you actually KNOW and WANT - or is that boring in the days of 'I must blog about my finds to keep up with the rest of the geeks"?

 

[mansson66]

You should be happy that there are people who still think it's a good idea to even have record stores.

 

[Westex]

I'll chime in and say these guys treated you horribly and you should NEVER go back again.

Now... where's this shop at? I just wanna make sure I never go there either... a simple pm would be fine.

 

[eleelandc]

I always love that first moment when you walk into a store filled with unpriced records... As you are sizing up just how to navigate the whole scene, they are sizing you up and mentally preparing their pricing of whatever you bring up (regardless of what it is) based on what they think they can get out of you.... There is always room in my heart to hear one more junker talk about what he can get for his unplayable wreckords from "the internet" or "the japanese" or "in Austin"....

 

[HarvestmanMan]

Short lesson from someone who has been buying obscure used records for 34 years - buy the stack in hand, get some stinkers, consider them loss leaders and cheap education and enjoy the good ones.

Yes! Yes! This guys knows what he's talking about.

For example, I bought a record with the title of "Mind Journey" and it turned out to be a country record - you just never know sometimes.

 

[Westex]

And fwiw... this same thing happened to me today. I spent two hours going through a few 1000 45s bought from a radio station ("Guys have pulled original Rolling Stones outta there, but I hadn't had time to look through them"). Big waste of time as the radio station evidently operated in the late 70s and 80s and was country, but I found a few worthy items. No $$$ stuff, or even $$ stuff. Got to the register to find the owner had stepped out. But if I could wait for 10 minutes he would be back to price stuff.

This is a second hand shop... price your goods before you set 'em out.

Had better luck down the road in the town where I've pulled the Primitives, Spades, all three One Way Street 45s on Deeek, Steve Mancha's "Friday Night", House of David on Cheese, Joe Poovey on Dixie, Mr. Lucky & the Gamblers, the Heartbeats, etc. Nothing extraordinary this time, but a fun stack of records which the owner looked at for 2 seconds and said how about $20.

 

[eleelandc]

Nothing extraordinary this time, but a fun stack of records which the owner looked at for 2 seconds and said how about $20.

Sounds like a "WIN" to me!

 

[familiar quadrangle]

Woah! This post made me finally stop lurking and open an account. Did you ever think of investing in a portable record player? Most stores have listening stations, but I always bring a portable just in case. No record store with any decent quantity of used 45s has ever refused to let me audition records. Heck, one guy even played 100 45s for me over the house system.

I almost never buy an unknown record without listening to it first. Otherwise, the clunkers start to pile up fast. Also, my record budget is not exactly infinite! A large chunk of my record knowledge is derived from listening to 1000s of records and then NOT buying them. It's one of the best parts of the adventure that is record collecting.

As for the lack of pricing, some of the best record stores do not price in advance. Why price countless records, many of which will sit for years? Trust me, records that you have to dig for will be priced on the spot at a lower price than those that are heavily curated, plastic-wrapped, priced and displayed in advance for your convenience. As long as don't do something ridiculous like tell the guy you are going to research the records at home. Research them with your ears. In the shop.

 

[Lee de Parade]

I like Eye3Get's honest attitude.
It seems record shop owners (and their clerks) are the same all over the world. Cranky and jaded and always under the impression they are getting screwed.
I want a more eastern aggressive approach, get that customer some tea and a waterpipe to suck on!
No pricetag? Then there should be bargaining and huckstering, crocodile tears and grinding of teeth.
Well who am I kidding..

Seriously, as a customer you should should have the right to buy whatever is in the store, unpriced or underpriced. I've had jokers trying to up the price going "oh wait, that should be double the price!"
Well bad for YOU muthafucka! And where the FUCK is my tea and waterpipe!?

My tip for all you profiteering record sifting maniacs - get the eBay app on you iDevice or droid and check what that cuckoo place is charging for the same 45.

 

[legbarecords]

Apps make me sick. If you need an app to buy records, you need to find another job or hobby or whatever. Some record stores are happy to make use of a collectors knowledge and create a mutually beneficial arangement regarding the "sifting" of 45's. They don't have the knowledge or resources to quickly price, or evaluate a few 100(or more) 45's. We do. Usually something can be worked out that's a win/win. First dibs+discount, if not better. From the perspective of an LP oriented record store, 45's are a large, time consuming, risky gamble. And they pile up fast when you don't know what to buy. 45's already being a limited market item for them(depending on how many 45 hounds live in yer town), after a while a lot of stores just stop messin with'em. So, if you help them identify a profit, they'll keep buying them. Which is good for you and all yer buddies. Now of course I'm talking about reasonable people. Unreasonable people keep buying but lack the interest and inclination that on-line selling requires. So they try to use your unique knowledge against you by letting you look through every nook of their hoplessly unorganized store. Then pricing from a guide at the end of your sift. these people usually go out of business.

 

[Northeastbeast]

I'm pretty sure we've all been in a situation where we've spent hours on our knees in some dank hovel, sifting through mostly horrific records desperatley searching for a fix, only to find a small glimmer of satisfaction, albeit in pretty ropey condition, where, on taking it to the counter we see the assistant reach for a Rare Record Price Guide and decree that "The book says it's £40", "Yeah, but it's not in great condition.", "But the book...". It's character building. Especially if you go back six months later, hoping rather than expecting that things have changed, only to see the very record you plucked out of obscurity previously, now sitting on a shelf, this time priced at £40, with an "Ultra Rare" sticker now added to augment it.

Some of our local charity shops are really bad for this type of thing. Obviously I don't expect them to have expert knowledge but using a book to price records with no concept of condition is particularly infuriating.

I have a pretty sweet deal with my local store where I get the first look at the stuff most recently priced up for sale at fairs, Jim, the owner, knows he can't know everything and that my knowledge of "going rates" is valuable to him, much as legbarecords about states. In exchange for double checking his prices I get the first look at new stock and a decent discount on my purchases, Jim gets a bit of reassurance and occassionally I notice a £100 slab that is marked at £20 and (assuming I have it already ), Jim corrects accordingly.

I don't think you can really complain too much about the situation in the OP though, you did basically say "I'm going home to check out which of these records are valuable on the internet and then I'm coming back to get them and I'll leave you with the dross". They'd have been pretty stupid to let you walk off with the cream for a buck a piece.

 

[MopTopMike]

Exactly right, guys.
Shops worth your time and effort (digging thru countless boxes or stacks) have owner(s) who understand that they will not get thee top price for something via foot traffic, and will work with customers who provide them with information by giving them "first dibs" or discounts on their purchases.
If not, you take your chances.