Rich Strauss
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2011
- Location
- SF Bay Area
A couple of years ago, I paid $300 for copy of the Amberjacks off eBay. It is VG but plays well. The labels had come loose but are still there. I think $300 was a fair price.
G45 Ebay Watch
- Thread starter Shakesomeaction
- Start date
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2011
- Location
- The shores of southern CT
It's always been my intent to help out fellow collectors. Education is just as important as "passing the torch" so that others coming into the clan can continue to learn and enjoy the sounds that keep us all involved (directly, or as lurkers) on the G45 forum.
The case of the Amberjacks i find intriguing, namely, for lack of logic that seems to permeate most high dollar transactions these days.
It seems that "trophy piece" ownership defies logic when it comes to price paid / offered, and condition. I cannot fathom why someone would pay close to 4 figures for a beat record that plays poorly at best. Especially when it is not a one-of-a kind rarity.
I will file less than VG condition 45s if the price is low enough, and (most important) they play better than the visual grade. Looks do not matter too much to me. It is all about playback. I've returned high dollar 45s to dealers, usually over-graded visually, because they played like crap. One dealer has blacklisted me from buying from him, because I returned two "high dollar"/ four figure priced 45s that played shitty when I got them home (The Es-Shades on united Audio, and the Beethoven Four on Don-lee). There was never a burning, yearning desire to "file it" anyway because i needed it for my collection. i don't even file every off-condition local record like other collectors seem to do!
Why keep something that plays so bad I cannot stand to listen to it? money is better spent on 45s that PLAY WELL.
That Amberjacks 45 played with total groove distortion. i thought the min opening bid was too high! i'm astounded by the complete disregard some newer collectors have for condition, as well as the casual ease with which they choose to blow their money. For these folks are to "blame" when values rise for better condition examples that should sell for what the lousy grade copies fetch.
The case of the Amberjacks i find intriguing, namely, for lack of logic that seems to permeate most high dollar transactions these days.
It seems that "trophy piece" ownership defies logic when it comes to price paid / offered, and condition. I cannot fathom why someone would pay close to 4 figures for a beat record that plays poorly at best. Especially when it is not a one-of-a kind rarity.
I will file less than VG condition 45s if the price is low enough, and (most important) they play better than the visual grade. Looks do not matter too much to me. It is all about playback. I've returned high dollar 45s to dealers, usually over-graded visually, because they played like crap. One dealer has blacklisted me from buying from him, because I returned two "high dollar"/ four figure priced 45s that played shitty when I got them home (The Es-Shades on united Audio, and the Beethoven Four on Don-lee). There was never a burning, yearning desire to "file it" anyway because i needed it for my collection. i don't even file every off-condition local record like other collectors seem to do!
Why keep something that plays so bad I cannot stand to listen to it? money is better spent on 45s that PLAY WELL.
That Amberjacks 45 played with total groove distortion. i thought the min opening bid was too high! i'm astounded by the complete disregard some newer collectors have for condition, as well as the casual ease with which they choose to blow their money. For these folks are to "blame" when values rise for better condition examples that should sell for what the lousy grade copies fetch.
Toddophonic
Mark VII Class
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2014
I found The Amberjacks at a store in Long Island that was going out of business. It was clearly picked through, but The Amberjacks was missed no doubt because it looks like a 70's label (at least to me). Cost me two or three bucks. At the time it was one of my top wants, I love both sides. Same exact thing and same reasoning applied to a copy of (It's US) on Arab I found in someone's collection that had also been picked through and once again set me back a few bucks.
Alas, finds like this are few and far between in the last couple of decades (at least for me)...though they do help to falsely rationalize some of the records I've paid full value or more for.
Alas, finds like this are few and far between in the last couple of decades (at least for me)...though they do help to falsely rationalize some of the records I've paid full value or more for.
Northeastbeast
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2012
I know what you're saying Mike. I don't agree with it all but that may be my own folly.
I understand what you say about logic but when has logic applied to record collectors? Or collectors of anything for that matter.
I'm very jealous of those like Toddophonic who can secure these records for pennies, a worthy reward for long term commitment, I'd love to get across to the States for something like the Allentown fair plus some adventuring "in the wild". Even the big European fairs are beyond me just now and digging opportunities in China or Kazakhstan where work takes me are nearly as limited as in Scotland.
I understand what you say about logic but when has logic applied to record collectors? Or collectors of anything for that matter.
I'm very jealous of those like Toddophonic who can secure these records for pennies, a worthy reward for long term commitment, I'd love to get across to the States for something like the Allentown fair plus some adventuring "in the wild". Even the big European fairs are beyond me just now and digging opportunities in China or Kazakhstan where work takes me are nearly as limited as in Scotland.
Toddophonic
Mark VII Class
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2014
Don't get too jealous Northeastbeast....I wrote about those 2 records but that is very rare, at least for me. Most of the garage records I've gotten in the last 15 years or so have been off Ebay unfortunately, with some others off private lists, Allentown etc.. One reward for some of us being older is that at least some of the records that now go for a couple hundred or so went for $5-$10 when we got them, but that ship sailed over 30 years ago. One record that comes specifically to mind is "No Good Woman" by The Tree, which Vic Figlar had in quantity!
I think there might be a couple people on this list who only pounce on stuff when they can find it cheap, kudos to them.
I think there might be a couple people on this list who only pounce on stuff when they can find it cheap, kudos to them.
Northeastbeast
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2012
Very true fella but at least the chance exists.
I collect a lot of Scottish 60's stuff but even finding that locally is near impossible, largely because we didn't have the same network of local labels. All the Scottish bands, near enough, had to head to London if they wanted to make it.
I must have spent 1000s of hours trawling through charity stores and record shops and in 15+ years I've found almost nothing of note in terms of 45's.
I collect a lot of Scottish 60's stuff but even finding that locally is near impossible, largely because we didn't have the same network of local labels. All the Scottish bands, near enough, had to head to London if they wanted to make it.
I must have spent 1000s of hours trawling through charity stores and record shops and in 15+ years I've found almost nothing of note in terms of 45's.
jerry dickens
Mark VII Class
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2014
Having been in Inverness last week on a buying mission I can verify Northeastbeast's observations about record hunting in Scotland, albeit my opinion is based on one visit to one very ordinary town, typical of many in the UK these days. However, I did unearth a very acceptable Tubby Hayes album on UK Tempo in a charity shop near to the bus station.Should cover the travel costs.
Ever since I've been collecting records I've heard fellow collectors advising about what they consider to be the current value of items and the criteria one should adopt when purchasing. They mean well and their opinions warrant serious consideration, no doubt, but when it comes to spending money on items which are no longer readily available at specific prices, the amount paid is ultimately a matter between seller and buyer.
Who on this esteemed forum has not paid more than the 'current' price for a record? Sure, it might irk you for a few weeks, but after a while the money involved is forgotten about and you convince yourself that owning the record is what really matters. And if it's not what it was advertised to be, well a refund is usually possible. Collectors generally have a great capacity for self deception.
It's always worth remembering that, in a certain sense, the seller is the enemy of the buyer.
Ever since I've been collecting records I've heard fellow collectors advising about what they consider to be the current value of items and the criteria one should adopt when purchasing. They mean well and their opinions warrant serious consideration, no doubt, but when it comes to spending money on items which are no longer readily available at specific prices, the amount paid is ultimately a matter between seller and buyer.
Who on this esteemed forum has not paid more than the 'current' price for a record? Sure, it might irk you for a few weeks, but after a while the money involved is forgotten about and you convince yourself that owning the record is what really matters. And if it's not what it was advertised to be, well a refund is usually possible. Collectors generally have a great capacity for self deception.
It's always worth remembering that, in a certain sense, the seller is the enemy of the buyer.
captainsalty
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2011
i'm surely in the minority here, but i dig old, beat-up records. i'm not after hi-fi, i'm after an artefact, a time capsule from the 1960s. (mint records from the 1960s almost freak me out.
where have they been all that time??) in case i want top sound, i can spin (as with the amberjacks, for which i bid like 250$) teen shutdown et al. and i will hear everything in detail. but for "digging" a 45, i prefer my own copy, beat as it may be.
where have they been all that time??) in case i want top sound, i can spin (as with the amberjacks, for which i bid like 250$) teen shutdown et al. and i will hear everything in detail. but for "digging" a 45, i prefer my own copy, beat as it may be.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2011
- Location
- The shores of southern CT
I haven't found an underpriced bargain 45 in several years, but that is mainly because I haven't done the footwork to get out there and hunt - the books take nearly all of my time. Even then, the places to go are limited, and the competition is fierce. There are the guys who don't collect garage, but they know prices and what to look for, so they can re-sell. Record shows are polluted now with record pimps. Just go to Allentown!
My last bargain score was a VG minus Beep Beep & The Roadrunners for $20 which i put up on ebay, back when it wasn't as easy to rip off sellers. I got over $800 for it which was ridiculous.
These days, I consider a good buy or bargain when i can save a bit - for instance, a 45 that typically sells for $500 and i can get it for $400. I really feel for the younger / newer collectors - it's an uphill battle for you folks. The internet has leveled the playing field, making it the go-to place for finding stuff, but you have to battle against everyone else with a computer hookup and net connection. The old days, you had auction and set sale mail order lists, and places to go in person - stores, record conventions, meetups....I really miss the days when a bunch of us would get together at the Waterbury, Connecticut record shows. We'd end up getting kicked out of the show for trading & selling with each other (the old timers who ran the show like Adolph Hitler insisted that you had to buy a table in order to buy and trade). We'd then walk out tot he parking lot and hang out there til we'd get kicked out (can't sell in the parking lot, they claimed) so we'd drive up the road to Blackies, the old fashioned hot dog stand built in 1911, and wheel 'n' deal there.
Those days, a guy like NWBuckeye would show up with a couple of boxes of good 45s. Or BN would show up with a box of goodies. Still remember the day when BN brought his buys from the Mark Martucci collection: Larry & blue Notes "In & Out" VG+ $50, Bad Roads "Blue Girl" $100, Jackson Investment Company VG++ $150. Spending $300 was a lot of money at one time for records in those days (1988-90). By the mid '90s prices were steadily climbing. Before Mark Taylor came along in 1996/97 and started the free-for all (people pullling 45s from their collection and selling to Mark), there was a guy from Florida named JD, who paid what we all thought were crazy prices. He was the first to pay $500+ for a Mourning Reign on Link with the pic sleeve. There was a large quantity of that with the sleeve, and it usually sold for $250 at most. When JD came into the picture, prices got crazy. He also paid $500 or 600 for the Split Ends "Rich With Nothin" long before any quantity was found.
When the Kesteloo collection was purchased by JJ, more guys with huge wallets got into the frenzy. i lost out on the Sands on Capri, one of the Kesteloo collection 45s auctioned by JJ. It either went to JB in Texas or GW in CA. The bid was $1200. By this time, it was apparent that the really rare stuff would always be above my means. I'm glad I was able to obtain the 45s I now have before the days of the internet. I still grab a lot of great stuff on ebay, but these days, it's 45s that I can get for a lot less than what dealers would usually ask.
My last bargain score was a VG minus Beep Beep & The Roadrunners for $20 which i put up on ebay, back when it wasn't as easy to rip off sellers. I got over $800 for it which was ridiculous.
These days, I consider a good buy or bargain when i can save a bit - for instance, a 45 that typically sells for $500 and i can get it for $400. I really feel for the younger / newer collectors - it's an uphill battle for you folks. The internet has leveled the playing field, making it the go-to place for finding stuff, but you have to battle against everyone else with a computer hookup and net connection. The old days, you had auction and set sale mail order lists, and places to go in person - stores, record conventions, meetups....I really miss the days when a bunch of us would get together at the Waterbury, Connecticut record shows. We'd end up getting kicked out of the show for trading & selling with each other (the old timers who ran the show like Adolph Hitler insisted that you had to buy a table in order to buy and trade). We'd then walk out tot he parking lot and hang out there til we'd get kicked out (can't sell in the parking lot, they claimed) so we'd drive up the road to Blackies, the old fashioned hot dog stand built in 1911, and wheel 'n' deal there.
Those days, a guy like NWBuckeye would show up with a couple of boxes of good 45s. Or BN would show up with a box of goodies. Still remember the day when BN brought his buys from the Mark Martucci collection: Larry & blue Notes "In & Out" VG+ $50, Bad Roads "Blue Girl" $100, Jackson Investment Company VG++ $150. Spending $300 was a lot of money at one time for records in those days (1988-90). By the mid '90s prices were steadily climbing. Before Mark Taylor came along in 1996/97 and started the free-for all (people pullling 45s from their collection and selling to Mark), there was a guy from Florida named JD, who paid what we all thought were crazy prices. He was the first to pay $500+ for a Mourning Reign on Link with the pic sleeve. There was a large quantity of that with the sleeve, and it usually sold for $250 at most. When JD came into the picture, prices got crazy. He also paid $500 or 600 for the Split Ends "Rich With Nothin" long before any quantity was found.
When the Kesteloo collection was purchased by JJ, more guys with huge wallets got into the frenzy. i lost out on the Sands on Capri, one of the Kesteloo collection 45s auctioned by JJ. It either went to JB in Texas or GW in CA. The bid was $1200. By this time, it was apparent that the really rare stuff would always be above my means. I'm glad I was able to obtain the 45s I now have before the days of the internet. I still grab a lot of great stuff on ebay, but these days, it's 45s that I can get for a lot less than what dealers would usually ask.
captainsalty
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 28, 2011
good read, mike.
i like those old-timey stories. in case you'll ever do a 2nd edition of tbm, i'd be delighted to get some inside scoop on the early collector scene.
i like those old-timey stories. in case you'll ever do a 2nd edition of tbm, i'd be delighted to get some inside scoop on the early collector scene.
buckeyebeat
Tennalaga Class
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2011
Last month I found a VG or better Dominions on Graves for $1 at a secondhand/antique shop here in the NW. As far as garage 45s, that's the best find like that I have made in probably 5 years. I did find a New Dawn LP a couple years ago for $2 at a thrift shop. I am glad that the possibility still exists for the random find.
Outside_Lookin_in
G45 Legend
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2014
The goldmine condition / pricing guide and the Oracle are just that: a pricing guide. I've been buying records on eBay for about 14 years. I have been noticing for many years now that ('60s garage) records don't sell for the percentages of the M- values that they're supposed to. VG records go for more like 50-70% of the M- value. This is, however, dependent on the rarity of the record, with the more common ones following the guide more closely. If I hadn't been bidding accordingly all these years, I would only have a fraction of the records that I now have. If a guide fails to reflect market conditions, then it no longer has relevancy.Well if you use the G45 oracle you'll see that if you're paying $ 666 for a vg- copy , that would give a m- copy a value of $ 2400 .
Having said that, I won't take chances on a lesser condition record (say, VG or less) that doesn't have a sound sound sample provided. However, this doesn't seem to worry some bidders, and I'll usually miss out as a result of my caution.
Northeastbeast
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2012
Love hearing those stories Mike.
$300 back in the early 90s? Haha, could you not buy an apartment for that back then. :-)
You're right about the current environment though and how challenging it is to secure top rarities now. Take Abba by The Paragons as an example, now I appreciate a lot on here don't rate it as highly as me and it typifies the much maligned mod dj scene but the chances of me ever getting that record now seems slim. I'm fairly sure there will always be someone with deeper pockets than me for it now and it'll remain top of my list in perpetuity.
The other thing that bugs me is that price guides and the likes of popsike make everyone think they're an expert. I remember going into a charity shop about ten years ago, finding a great UK psych LP but it was tagged up at mint condition book price despite being borderline unplayable. It sat there in that shop for years. It's probably still there now. But if the book says it's £500, that's what the tickets gonna say. Madness.
$300 back in the early 90s? Haha, could you not buy an apartment for that back then. :-)
You're right about the current environment though and how challenging it is to secure top rarities now. Take Abba by The Paragons as an example, now I appreciate a lot on here don't rate it as highly as me and it typifies the much maligned mod dj scene but the chances of me ever getting that record now seems slim. I'm fairly sure there will always be someone with deeper pockets than me for it now and it'll remain top of my list in perpetuity.
The other thing that bugs me is that price guides and the likes of popsike make everyone think they're an expert. I remember going into a charity shop about ten years ago, finding a great UK psych LP but it was tagged up at mint condition book price despite being borderline unplayable. It sat there in that shop for years. It's probably still there now. But if the book says it's £500, that's what the tickets gonna say. Madness.
Outside_Lookin_in
G45 Legend
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2014
This reminds me of the Oceans 45 being listed for - can't remember now if it was $2K or $4K - but the seller quoted some record guide as justification. Don't think he ever sold it, because the market knew its value was around the $200 mark.
Outside_Lookin_in
G45 Legend
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2014
Did someone mention the Paragons? Almost forgot I need that badly 
buckeyebeat
Tennalaga Class
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2011
Paragons used to be affordable up to about 8 years ago. Funny I was reading something on Facebook where a couple hot box DJs were complaining about how this record is now overplayed and tired on the DJ scene. Sure hasn't trickled down to cheaper prices.
The person selling the Oceans is the band's drummer, Jim Dean. Another Baby Boomer who probably 15 years ago thought their record was a piece of crap. Boom, someone expresses interest, and suddenly he thinks it's a museum piece. It's worth about $100.
The person selling the Oceans is the band's drummer, Jim Dean. Another Baby Boomer who probably 15 years ago thought their record was a piece of crap. Boom, someone expresses interest, and suddenly he thinks it's a museum piece. It's worth about $100.
Outside_Lookin_in
G45 Legend
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2014
Here's an extreme example of lesser grade records selling for a much higher percentage of their M- value than the guides would allow. It's not even rare. http://www.ebay.com/itm/381194636701
Toddophonic
Mark VII Class
- Joined
- Nov 2, 2014
It often boils down to simple supply and demand. The Squires record is not rare relative to the records we often talk about here, but it is rare compared to records in general. But the main issue is that almost anyone who hears it is going to want it if they buy garage 45's because it is an amazing record and has also achieved legendary status. And even in the $200-$300 range where I think most clean copies sell at, it is still a lot more affordable than most 45's that are around the same level of greatness (with hits like "You're Gonna Miss Me" being obvious exceptions).
mr. splendid
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2011
- Location
- Berlin , Germany
also it's a promo copy , which has superior sound quality compared to the stock copies IMO .
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2011
- Location
- The shores of southern CT
I have the stock copy pressing that was pressed at the same plant as the ebay auctioned promo. I've also had a promo copy, the same type as auctioned. i kept the stock copy as they sounded exactly the same.
I'm not exactly certain where another pressing was done - they resemble Plastic Products pressings - those sound hissy / noisy upon playback due to poor grade of vinyl used in the manufacturing process
I'm not exactly certain where another pressing was done - they resemble Plastic Products pressings - those sound hissy / noisy upon playback due to poor grade of vinyl used in the manufacturing process
