Frantic
G45 Legend
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2011
Me neither, I'll buy the hell out his cd. One please.
Lost Sounds Montana, Vol. 1
- Thread starter pfft
- Start date
inkmathematics
Mark VII Class
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Location
- Montana
Time-Lag did that great kickstarter campaign to properly reissue "Out of The Bachs", you guys thought that was bullshit too? I threw in some cash on that and was happy as hell to have supported that project, granted, that was THE BACHS
Frantic
G45 Legend
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2011
I bought one. That means I supported him.
Heitkotter77
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2011
- Location
- the Woods of Briar
I wasn't aware until now that Time-Lag did a kick-starter campaign for that. The truth is I would consider that with even less regard than I expressed here for the Montana project. They're an established business that produces regular releases, and I presume, with the intention of making a profit. In fact, when I suggested in my prior post of going to a label that had the resources, T-L was actually one of the ones I'd had in mind. I'm rather disappointed to hear this about them. I've apparently overestimated them.
Do understand, I'm a charitable person. I give a fair amount each year. I give to organization that I feel are properly using the money to benefit others and not themselves or fundraisers (don't even go there with the obvious counter-argument). This isn't the same as a charity, though. This is a business.
If I front money to a business, I would expect a return on my money that would be in excess of the right to receive a copy of the release that I could just as easily buy after it comes out for less. That's how capitalism works, and like it or not, that's the economic society we live in.
When I was a partner in the Parallel World label, we needed money. We went the private route. First, we looked into a private investor, then eventually secured a bank credit line with our personal guarantees. That's how one builds a business here; the first step is taking on the responsibility and the risk. You take the risk, you get the reward. Don't ask others to take the risk without any reward.
Heitkotter77
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2011
- Location
- the Woods of Briar
If your intent is to preserve the music, then maybe you should consider setting up a not for profit foundation for that purpose. It makes in clear in everyone's mind what your intentions are.
People have done this long before the internet came along to provide anyone with a seemingly easy way out and it's still the best way to proceed (and the most honest one).
By the way, regarding your Lost Sounds Montana Project, have you done anything in the way of creating some type of legal entity or did you just jump in and start working on this and trying to raise money?
If you're not doing this right, you could open yourselves up for some very serious legal and tax implications. This holds true for anyone asking for money through kickstarter or any similar site.
Having been in a semi-retirement mode from my profession, I'm not up on how the IRS and state tax authorities have been addressing this matter. if they haven't yet, as this fundraising method grows even larger and more known, they will.
inkmathematics
Mark VII Class
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Location
- Montana
Even though there doesn't seem to a lot of love on here for our fundraising I thought I'd share an acetate we turned up just the other night..
inkmathematics
Mark VII Class
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Location
- Montana
To clarify about the organization, we are currently poised to go under the shelter of the Montana History Foundation and we are pursuing non-profit status, but that is taking a bit of time.
beccabear67
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Location
- Canada
Well, I guess this is just something I will never understand. Mind you nobody is really explaining things well. All I want is music, don't care much about bumper stickers, member cards, my name in print someplace, or any of the stuff you sit through PBS pledge breaks thinking how expensive it would be if you just wanted one copy of the thing they are dangling. Why can't you just offer each disc/platter at some reasonable cost? I'd be happy to pay in advance... it's the weird charity appeal aspect I find confusing and sort of well... shifty (and that goes for most everything on these sites, nothing personal). I love checking out and trading garage & rock/pop/etc sides from the northwest, do I have to be in a special club with loads of frills?
I don't seem to understand what you are "sharing" even. When I share you get the best visual and audio I can muster which is not worthless. My bf runs a studio and does work transferring old tapes and cutting master discs, I know it's not exactly cheap but I'm not getting your costs except as figures off the top of your head, and that kind of has the spider senses tingling in a not really confident way that this project will come out as top notch as promised.
I don't think it's about loving or hating or anything personal. We all love the music, we all want to see it available, and the stories behind it told. I do hope this isn't the way of things to come as it seems really... pretentious I suppose is the word. Needlessly elaborate? Hope that gets through and makes some sense.
I don't seem to understand what you are "sharing" even. When I share you get the best visual and audio I can muster which is not worthless. My bf runs a studio and does work transferring old tapes and cutting master discs, I know it's not exactly cheap but I'm not getting your costs except as figures off the top of your head, and that kind of has the spider senses tingling in a not really confident way that this project will come out as top notch as promised.
I don't think it's about loving or hating or anything personal. We all love the music, we all want to see it available, and the stories behind it told. I do hope this isn't the way of things to come as it seems really... pretentious I suppose is the word. Needlessly elaborate? Hope that gets through and makes some sense.
beccabear67
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Location
- Canada
That sounds like a good idea, maybe you all should have had that set up first as it would lend some credence to things. If the music can wait over fifty years it could wait another month or so for better planning?
Oh wait, "48 Days Left," something tells me that might not be a done deal by then? That is probably the main thing I'm failing 'to get'.
Heitkotter77
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Oct 3, 2011
- Location
- the Woods of Briar
What's a bit of time?
All this should have been taken care of and been in place before you started work and definitely before raising money. And it doesn't take that long to do unless you're not doing something right or don't have a qualified person handling it.
It sounds like you rushed into this in a burst of enthusiasm without really thinking it out first and adequately planning the venture. This is where you lose a lot of confidence from potential donors, who will be afraid this is nothing more than another of the scores of well-meaning but ill-prepared adventurists asking for money.
Anybody have any idea how many of the kickstarter, et. al. ventures never reach their goals or produce what they promise? I imagine the stats aren't very impressive. That doesn't make for much encouragement either.
No, I guess, there is no love for your fundraising, but I'm sure there will be much for the release if it turns out well (sound quality, packaging and of course, the music). We do wish you luck with it.
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2011
- Location
- The shores of southern CT
Let me state that I am for the project of releasing as-yet unheard material.
What sorta perplexes me is the panhandling manner for funding of the entire business model and the obvious inexperience in first understanding, then setting up the entire process (as Mike noted above, legalities, and taxes - I wonder if some of those fund recipients even declare the monies on their tax returns? A rough estimate on 7 grand of income - which this is, despite the guise of donations - will require almost 2 grand owed to Uncle Sam on your 2013 federal tax return - as for the U.S. state of this operation, add some more $$$ to the tax tally).
For example, some of the funds of the requested 7 grand being set aside for order fulfillment (warehousing, distribution, shipping to distributors...) is absolutely absurd. Money needed for this should come from sales of the comp, and the expenses are then written off or deducted as business expenses for tax purposes. A lot of people who do comps often use a "pre-sale" situation, where customers purchase the goods just prior to the product becoming available. Federal law states that if you charge someone (card, paypal, or even a personal check / moneyorder) and you cannot ship the good to them within a 30 day period, the customer MUSt be made aware by a written correspondence, and then, they have the right to cancel the order for a full refund. I did this with TBM, but I did not start taking pre-orders until a month or so before the books arrived from the printer.
I would suggest using a credit card if the money is not there. I did so for my business start up costs (about 2 grand). If you don't have a credit card, apply for one and charge some easily paid back, everyday items to start building up credit.
I think these folks are thinking way too big from the get-go. A smart move - start out small, focused and somewhat frugal when it comes to costs: Manufacture no more than 500 copies at first, and find a much cheaper mastering source - hell, Tim Warren will do it, better than most anyone out there today when it comes to analog / digital transfers - and it wouldn't cost anywhere near what the Lost Montana folks are being rooked for). And believe me, it will be a CHALLENGE to even sell all 500 copies, let alone at full retail value. A Label brand name is everything, and newbies will have an uphill battle.
Doing anything beyond this scope is a guarantee for failure.
What sorta perplexes me is the panhandling manner for funding of the entire business model and the obvious inexperience in first understanding, then setting up the entire process (as Mike noted above, legalities, and taxes - I wonder if some of those fund recipients even declare the monies on their tax returns? A rough estimate on 7 grand of income - which this is, despite the guise of donations - will require almost 2 grand owed to Uncle Sam on your 2013 federal tax return - as for the U.S. state of this operation, add some more $$$ to the tax tally).
For example, some of the funds of the requested 7 grand being set aside for order fulfillment (warehousing, distribution, shipping to distributors...) is absolutely absurd. Money needed for this should come from sales of the comp, and the expenses are then written off or deducted as business expenses for tax purposes. A lot of people who do comps often use a "pre-sale" situation, where customers purchase the goods just prior to the product becoming available. Federal law states that if you charge someone (card, paypal, or even a personal check / moneyorder) and you cannot ship the good to them within a 30 day period, the customer MUSt be made aware by a written correspondence, and then, they have the right to cancel the order for a full refund. I did this with TBM, but I did not start taking pre-orders until a month or so before the books arrived from the printer.
I would suggest using a credit card if the money is not there. I did so for my business start up costs (about 2 grand). If you don't have a credit card, apply for one and charge some easily paid back, everyday items to start building up credit.
I think these folks are thinking way too big from the get-go. A smart move - start out small, focused and somewhat frugal when it comes to costs: Manufacture no more than 500 copies at first, and find a much cheaper mastering source - hell, Tim Warren will do it, better than most anyone out there today when it comes to analog / digital transfers - and it wouldn't cost anywhere near what the Lost Montana folks are being rooked for). And believe me, it will be a CHALLENGE to even sell all 500 copies, let alone at full retail value. A Label brand name is everything, and newbies will have an uphill battle.
Doing anything beyond this scope is a guarantee for failure.
beccabear67
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Location
- Canada
Responded to something that changed/disappeared. 
beccabear67
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Location
- Canada
Responded to something that changed/disappeared.
Perkeo
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 24, 2011
I think you`re being a tad bit harsh here Becca...these guys have posted sound clips on their Facebook page, and I don`t expect them to play their full hand right out of the gate, I mean we didn`t expect Harold Ott to give away all his Arkansas stuff before he put his comps out. As much as I want to hear this stuff, it makes sense to me that they wait until they do a proper job on their planned release before they start giving anything away...I mean if anyone is going to do that it should be original band members who have the rights to do so. If the bands themselves wanna give it away great, otherwise to me it`s just as arrogant to give it away in a come one come all fashion...which I don`t think forum comps were :).I wish someone else had kept or bought this stuff. I'm tired of people hoarding stuff and extorting money for copies or getting some ego trip by 'sharing' only on a podcast they pontificate on. I've shared whatever rarities I've had from the PNW no charge to many people, guess I'm an idiot and should've started a club asking for money. I'm not cool with some here but this jazz is so totally uncool. A crappy photo of something rare just to get people to spend is not "sharing" okay? This site is being used! Mark/Boss Hoss is the opposite of this. I can only assume he is on vacation. You want to show off your rare scans and hoard the music great for you, but then you want other people's money after acquring them and you can take a hike.
Can't spell, can't hardly communicate, but give me money and I might actually share stuff. I can't believe some people want to support this way of doing things. Must be blinded by label scans. You can keep your special insider club and the self-centered egos.
greenfuzz
Orlyn Class
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2011
You make a lot of good points, Becca, but the bottom line is it takes money to release decades old music the right way. Let's use Joey D. for example. He no doubt spends a great deal of time, effort and money to research and to locate band members and recordings. Should he just share the songs he finds? Of course not. Joey has released some of my all-time favorite releases on his Frantic label, but he's also hinted on this forum that he has many other great releases-to-be that, due to what I imagine is great effort/little reward, we'll probably never get to hear. If Joey were to do something similar to Kickstarter or Indiegogo, I'd be first in line to contribute. I've already stated I believe $7,000 to be excessive, but it's costing me personally only $35. All other points about taxes, etc., are none of our concern. That's on them. I just don't agree with the uproar over what amounts to a pre-order. Yes...we are in essence providing the funding, but that's the point. Otherwise we don't get to hear the music via a proper release.
Frantic
G45 Legend
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2011
Too be honest I've been sitting on 1000 pressed cds of the LUV'S DO FREE and CAPITOL'S GONE ROCKIN' releases for over 2 years now. I just need to get off my lazy ass and design the booklets. Nothing to do with money though. But even if I was a broke ass mofo I would never panhandle for the moolah to release them. I'm all the way with Becca. As a matter of fact if they continue to beg for money I may not even buy one at all.
inkmathematics
Mark VII Class
- Joined
- Dec 25, 2011
- Location
- Montana
I appreciate all the responses and I can assure you that I am taking all suggestions and advice to heart as I would like to see this project do well. It would take far too long for me to respond to every post but I am taking this thread and all the responses to the Lost Sounds Montana group as I believe the advice given here, although oftentimes negative in tone, is valuable and comes from experience and expertise.
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