This 45 does not exist!!!

Maybe Mr. P will jump in and sue us for using HIS images!!!:D Then again, maybe Mr. P will offer Axel a autographed photo for defending him;)
Thanks for at least keeping your sense of humour. This deadly seriousness is making me sick.

I will ALWAYS defend a good songwriter, especially if he is never given any credits, not even by the few who know his work (even if it's only a tiny bit).:cool:
 
A lot of words for not even answering my two simple questions:
1. Can't it be that this 45 is an illegal release?
2. Is there any other material by the Fritz?

I never assumed that the Karma label wasn't an operating label in 1968. But that doesn't mean that this particular release was legal. I was just putting one and one together. Common sense. Actually you are still asking the same questions concerning the bandname etc.
Here's an assumption that I do have to make: you don't read properly what I'm saying, because you think I'm an idiot. I don't care if you think I'm an idiot. But please read properly what I'm actually saying. Then you could save some adrenaline and pomposity for more important undertakings.

To answer your question if I own any other of the Karma releases, in short: no.

I'm surprised you selected pomposity - that was not an intended "read between the lines" scripted flavoring, however, it may haven been the ultimate result regarding your incessant temerity to question and challenge every posted or presented point on a subject currently under discussion on this forum.

Can't it be that this 45 is an illegal release?

The band had a manager. Said manager makes decisions. If there was a signed contract between a manager and a group, the manager often excercises his/her right to makes decisions without consulting the group. Just because the group doesn't know about a record release, it does not automatically imply a bootleg release. Common sense, as you say. Even if there was no signed contract, maangers in those days took actions for promoting the group. Getting a record released was typical. and many times, the group was not aware. Or, they may have forgotten, if the effort was a low key deal.

If you have read enough of Mr. Pacheco's postings, he is convinced that the Karma label is a made-up modern-day entity by someone out to cash in on "unreleased pre Fleetwood Mac recording efforts". He called the label design as something akin to a third grader's art project. Sam Coplin would have had to legally sign a document with another party to release the songs. He wasn't some little guy putting out vanity pressings on behalf of teenage groups.

Joey purchased a Fritz promotional group shot photo directly from a Bay area booking agent, who has since passed on. The man had scores of photos of various Bay area groups. Is this photo an unauthorized 'bootleg' because Mr. Pacheco has potentially claimed copyright on it? He didn't take the photo. He is in the picture, so that automatically implies ownership? He has copyright rights to the "Songs", NOT the record that was released in 1968. There is a difference, but Pacheco doesn't think so. Can't you see the ill-reasoned logic of this man? If not, I'll defer to Joey's dickweed comments!

 
Here's what I have for a discography:

Karma
101 American Blues 'If I Were A Carpenter' / 'All I Saw Was You'
201 ?
301 Sincerely,San Jose
401 Happiness 'Burning Mountain' / 'Luck,Love,Life & Laughter'
501 The Kar-Mels 'I Found A True Love' / 'Hard Boiled Coffee'
601 Dr. Tom and His Friends 'Happiness Journey' / 'Dr Tom's Walk'

Thanks in advance to Mike (or anyone) for filling in the blank item details. Looks like these are all PAMS productions in Dallas except for 101 (Tyler) and 301 (which still has Dallas production credits and publishing on the A side). Funny how Karma spells Burt's name wrong but gets his publishing right.
 
Karma 201 is the sought after "Northern Soul" sounding disc by the Stemmons Express, "Woman, Love Thief" / "Soul Power". It was picked up by Wand (#1198) for a nationwide US distributed release.

#601 is the 45 I do not have. Reviewed in Record World as a moog synth sounding instrumental.
 
regarding your incessant temerity to question and challenge every posted or presented point on a subject currently under discussion on this forum
The only thing I remember questioning here is that Bin Laden was liquidated recently. And that certainly was a subject that the forum could well have done without. The discussion was highly polemic, too, and in this respect I don't think my comments were better or worse than everybody else's.
Threads that start with slogans like "Bin Laden is dead!!!" or "This 45 doesn't exist!!!" look like a pretty open invitation to dispute to me.

Joey purchased a Fritz promotional group shot photo directly from a Bay area booking agent, who has since passed on. The man had scores of photos of various Bay area groups. Is this photo an unauthorized 'bootleg' because Mr. Pacheco has potentially claimed copyright on it? He didn't take the photo. He is in the picture, so that automatically implies ownership? He has copyright rights to the "Songs", NOT the record that was released in 1968.
In case of the photo I don't really see why you should be afraid to use it anyway.
But how bout the record? Just supposing the release of the 45 was illegal: even then, would Mr.Pacheco have the right to keep somebody from selling it? If not, then why don't you just sell it? How does he have them "yoinked"? Does he threaten people? And again: even then, if he has no right to do so, then why care about it?
But if he could actually win some sort of lawsuit with this case, the question if or if not this release was legal becomes predominant. Your explanations are thoughtful, but they don't really convince me of this release not being rather dubious (wrong bandname, "demo sessions", "Bacharock").
 
Do you know the way to San Jose?

The problem stems from everyone relying on this one guy's memory. You would need to talk to the other band members, as well as the label owner, in order to come to a reasoned understanding of the circumstances. There are lots of possibilities, the 45 being a "bootleg" probably the least likely one.

There are many, many '60s musicians who have made similar claims as this guy. Further research usually proves them wrong.
 
When Nate Gibson was interviewing Don Pierce for his Starday book, Pierce insisted that nothing came out on Starday while he was producing for Mercury in 1957. As a matter of fact, something like 50 singles were released on Starday that year. And this was coming from a man who had a reliable memory in most cases.
 
If someone has claimed copyright (photo) you cannot use it without gaining permission. I know in this modern day era everyone thinks it's "no big deal", but I assure you, it is. I certainly don't need another headache at this point.
As I stated before, Pacheco can use his attorney pals muscle to intimidate and threaten anyone who uses "his" songs without permission, i.e, provide free downloads of the songs. Where he is wrong is that ownership of those Sincerely San Jose 45s is not the same thing under the law. Anyone can freely buy, trade sell the 45 without fear of legal reprisal, but ebay's tendency to just side with anyone who has provenance clout usually had Javier getting the Sincerely San Jose 45 yoinked off the site.
His argument of "unauthorized" release won't hold up should experts be allowed to bring contrary details to light.
 
Regarding the American Blues 45 101, I got a very cheap copy a while back, low grading, filler copy really. What struck me was that even though there were substantial amounts of pops and clicks, the music was way way back, very quiet pressing. A couple of years ago, I got another copy, nice condition, which sounds great. The first copy I got, on the "Carpenter" side, has a running time of 4.10 on the label. The full sounding copy has a running time of 3.20 on the label. Deadwax on the 4.10 copy reads Karma K45-101-A BRS 116 and some kind of hand inscription which I'm finding hard to decipher. Two words, first is possibly Nashville? The second begins with a capital M, but I can't make out the rest. The 3.20 copy has the same letters, but no inscription. "All I saw was you" is the same length on both 45s. Can anyone shed any light on this?
 
Oh ok, just found the inscription is Nashville Matrix. My partner (with better eyes than mine) just had a look and on the louder press, there is the "ghost" of the Nashville Matrix inscription. Very hard to make out, but bits are there.
It's still bugging me as the difference in sound is quite startling. Just had another look, and the louder press has a much wider playing surface area and correspondingly narrower deadwax area. Would there have been a repress to deal with the sound issues of the first one?
 
Oh ok, just found the inscription is Nashville Matrix. My partner (with better eyes than mine) just had a look and on the louder press, there is the "ghost" of the Nashville Matrix inscription. Very hard to make out, but bits are there.
It's still bugging me as the difference in sound is quite startling. Just had another look, and the louder press has a much wider playing surface area and correspondingly narrower deadwax area. Would there have been a repress to deal with the sound issues of the first one?

This remastering/'stealth' reissue dance happened more often than folks expect...even with 'non-hits' like the Cowsills early folk rock 45 on Joda.
 
I know I like some bizarre sounds sometimes but really, the original side of it sounds fairly awful to me, I guess it's the curiosity value of it driving the price. This is garage? I thought they were trying to be the next We Five, Association or maybe Beau Brummels. But the harmony is plain sour and the songwriting is moronic in a not good way. It is uniquely bad I suppose, but bad is still bad; there's lots of half-baked doo-wop too but at least you get quality vocals. I have a few Fritz bitz and they are better, and maybe someday there'll be a collection of all of that stuff. I thought The Honeys sounded bad and had some awful songs too yet Brian Wilson fanatics praise everything they recorded...

The Honeys' "He's A Doll" was a great production with 'middle school imbecile'-level lyrics (which was Brian Wilson's secret/unspoken charm).
I always love the way Bri quoted sports themes in his compositions back then ("On Wisconsin" in this case). By the time they became Spring,
the Rovell sisters had learned to use their voices in a slightly less abrasive manner...and lost the Dippity-Do.