G45 GBase Thinktank

This is a great idea.

The "own/want" portion of it has been implemented on 45cat with success. Another thing I like about their system is that they have eBay/Amazon links in the listing, so searching for the record can be done with ease.

Here's a sample record, so you can see what I mean.
http://www.45cat.com/record/813l2609
As you can see, much of the stuff on your list of criteria is already implemented.

Ideas that I am not a fan of: including "influences" (because that isn't totally factual), including "instruments used" (because, if audio is available, it should be rather obvious), and restricting it to only those with a copy of TBM. Especially the last one.

I suggest you contact the owners of 45cat for advice on how to set up this database...they've got listings for other forms of media such as 78s, cassette singles, and magazines, and will have an LP database in the works soon.
 
HarvestmanMan said:
I suggest you contact the owners of 45cat for advice on how to set up this database...they've got listings for other forms of media such as 78s, cassette singles, and magazines, and will have an LP database in the works soon.
Click to expand...
Somehow I just don't see the Boss copying someone else's site. :oops: And please don't even get me started on the evile cassingle:flush:
 
HarvestmanMan said:
This is a great idea.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the comments and link to 45cat HarvestmanMan. I know you weren't suggesting that we copy their site, which is very interesting and relevant for us to consider. At first I was sort of deflated to see how much of the concept was already in place at 45cat. I'm now of the opinion that it doesn't really matter, because 45cat just doesn't do what g45base will do. I'll list some differences in the concepts :

1 - I wouldn't spend days of my time entering 45s into 45cat, without the ability to then download my own personal data from 45cat to my computer. What happens if 45cat closes down? There goes all my work. G45base will allow downloading of personal data.

2 - There should be a way to add 45s from your own database in a bulk dump, saving countless hours of manual entry. We will have that.

3 - 45cat has no way to filter out records by genre. Which means any 45cat listings will be a hotch-potch of completely irrelevant 45s mostly of no interest to anyone here

4 - As a related point to #3 above, I have a problem with sullying my 45s by entering them into the same database as Flock Of Seagulls and Wham (yes I checked, they are both well-represented at 45cat). It's just not a concept I wish to support with my hard work.

5 - I like the 45cat concept of adding comments from members, and the ability to embed youtube clips in the comments. I hope we can do that too if the programming is not too complex. The difference will be that comments at g45base will come from people who actually like and have specialised knowledge of '60s garage music, because only g45 forum members will be involved.

6 - One of the most interesting features of 45cat is the label discography features (see this link)
http://www.45cat.com/label/epic-nl
We will not attempt to implement this feature, because we won't be trying to construct discographies of every record ever made on a label. We will be actively purging and excluding trash from our database!

7 - related to point 6 above, the whole point of our database, will be the attempt to steer people away from the 20 million atrocious and boring 45s, which exist only to bury and obscure the great ones.

8 - I wouldn't want to limit our work to fact only. That would make it no fun.
 
bosshoss said:
1 - I wouldn't spend days of my time entering 45s into 45cat, without the ability to then download my own personal data from 45cat to my computer. What happens if 45cat closes down? There goes all my work. G45base will allow downloading of personal data.

2 - There should be a way to add 45s from your own database in a bulk dump, saving countless hours of manual entry. We will have that.
Click to expand...
Both of those make perfect sense.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that most collectors use Excel to catalog their collections. That said, there must be some technology out there that can import data from a spreadsheet straight into an online database like this.

But I'm no computer technology expert, and thus can't comment any further on that.

(I see your point about A Flock Of Seagulls and Wham! - wading through thousands of male vocalist records does get tedious.)
 
The G45base officially exists!

It's already in cyberspace. However, it currently contains no data...and no way to input any data...:nope:

But you can look at its structure, if you like

http://www.g45central.com/posts/g45base1.png
http://www.g45central.com/posts/g45base2.png
http://www.g45central.com/posts/g45base3.png

There's a lot of data fields. However, not all of them will be visible on the individual 45 display pages. Some of the data will only be used to help refine searches and lists. Hopefully there will also be a linked (via the recnum field) database which will contain comments about each 45, entered by administrators and users of the database. Those comments could contain embedded media files, and links to other internet resources.
 
I wont claim to understand what exactly you're doing there, Mark, but I understand enough to see that this is the beginning of something truely magnificient and unparalleled. After missing the pyramids it feels great to be alive when g45base is being constructed!
 
HarvestmanMan said:
This is a great idea.

Ideas that I am not a fan of: including "influences" (because that isn't totally factual), including "instruments used" (because, if audio is available, it should be rather obvious), and restricting it to only those with a copy of TBM. Especially the last one.
Click to expand...

It's our way of weeding out the poseurs from the pack :lol:
 
jacshark said:
will 3 track 45s be an issue? EPs?
Click to expand...

The way I designed the database, they would be a problem. Aaron has already looked at my design, and he doesn't like it. He wants to split it up into a main table with several smaller associated tables to make it faster and more compact, as well as to cater for unlimited entries per disc in areas such as "tracks", "comments" and "features". He's going to work on it over the next couple of days.
 
I'm late to this thread, but it looks super-promising.

I would like to see small (local) labels listed in their entirety even for non-garage discs - because there are often connections between producers, writers or artists that can shed light on an obscure 45.

The more data at first the better: it's easy enough to narrow it down later. Much harder to make a new field and populate it after many entries are already in.

As for setting up the SQL database or presenting it, let me know if I can help.
 
chas_kit said:
I'm late to this thread, but it looks super-promising.

I would like to see small (local) labels listed in their entirety even for non-garage discs - because there are often connections between producers, writers or artists that can shed light on an obscure 45.

The more data at first the better: it's easy enough to narrow it down later. Much harder to make a new field and populate it after many entries are already in.

As for setting up the SQL database or presenting it, let me know if I can help.
Click to expand...

I see no reason why we couldn't have the non-garage local listings, if various members care enough to enter them. Obviously they would have to be flagged as non-garage so that they did not appear in listings unless specifically requested.. And some of the fields would have to be left blank, such as g45rank and star ratings. Maybe the ratings could be given a negative value....:yup:
 
Just an update. The g45base is coming along slowly. Aaron has not yet started helping with the project due to a heavy workload on other more mundane tasks. However, I have been quite busy myself, planning and even learning the basics of web programming. Just the basics...:wtf:...

I wanted to throw open the following proposed categories for discussion. The fields in the database need to be grouped into a basic structure, for data entry and also for later display of the results of searches. Each group would be available in a drop-down menu which would expand to reveal the choices within the group (like the left-hand side of eBay). Here's what I think makes sense...

GROUP 1 - Artist Details
Artist Name - (eg. "Denny Belline & The Rich Kids")
Sort Name - (eg. "Belline Denny & The Rich Kids")
Prefix ("The" "Les" "Os" etc")
Photo (of the band)
Members (list of band members if known)
Country (eg. USA)
State (eg. Texas)
Town (eg. Waco of course)

GROUP 2 - Song Details
Title A-side
Title B-side
Media Link for A-side (youtube or other)
Media Link for B-side (youtube or other)
Best LP Comp Source for A-side
Best LP Comp Source for B-side
Best CD Comp Source for A-side
Best CD Comp Source for B-side
Songwriters, A-side
Songwriters, B-side
A-side a remake/cover of (eg. Zombies)
B-side a remake/cover of (eg. Beatles)
Recording Studio
Producers

GROUP 3 - Label Details
Label Name (eg. Fenton)
Label Location (usually as shown on label)
Scan of Label A-side
Scan of Label B-side
Scan of Picture Sleeve (front)
Scan of Picture Sleeve (back)
Scan of company sleeve
Label Color

GROUP 4 - Wax Details
Format (eg. wide 45, pop-out 45, narrow 33)
Wax Type (eg. Acetate, Red Vinyl, Black Vinyl, Styrene, Flexi-disc)
Catalog Number
Matrix Number/Pressing Code
Pressing Account Number/Code
Year Of Release
Month Of Release
Deadwax A-side
Deadwax B-side
Promos exist?
Stock copies exist?
Pressing Plant
Pressing Quantity
Pressing Defects (eg. bubbly wax, off-center pressing, reversed labels, misprint title etc.)

GROUP 5 - Style Details
Mood (single choice eg. Crude, Melancholy, Intense, Bright, Crazed etc.)
Pace (single choice eg. Slow, Midpaced, Fast, Blistering etc.)
Beat (single choice eg. Ballad, Rocker, Swinger, Stomp, Shuffle etc.)
Features (unlimited choice checkbox list, eg. fuzz guitar, rave-up, tambourine, sound effects, etc)
Sound (unlimited choice checkbox list, eg. Psychedelic, Folkrock, Frat, Invasion etc.)
Lead Break (single choice of instrument from drop-down menu , e.g.. guitar, sax, organ, kazoo etc)
Vocal (Male, Female, Kiddie, None, etc.)
Language (English, French, Spanish, German etc.)
Harmony Vocals (yes or no)
Screams (star rating from 0 to 5)

GROUP 6 - Ratings
G45 Ranking (from G1 to G50,000+, based on A-side and B-side Sound/Rarity/Legend ratings)
Sound Rating A-Side
Sound Rating B-side
Rarity Rating
Legend Rating
Fidelity Rating (eg. Rating 1-5 stars representing Sub-Lo-Fi, Lo-Fi, Mid-Fi, Hi-Fi, Ultra Hi-Fi)
DJ Rating (1-5 stars representing dancefloor suitability as rated by panel of G45central DJs)

GROUP 7 - Collector Details
Repros Exist? (yes or no)
Copies Known (quantity estimated)
Quantity Finds (where known)
G45 Owns (quantity owned by G45central forum members)
G45 Wants (quantity wanted by G45 forum members)
Value for Mint
Value for VG+
Value for VG
Value for VG-
Value for G

GROUP 8 - Database Flags
Database Record Number (000001 to 999999)
Date Added to database
Contributors (list of initials or aliases for contributors to each 45 listing)
Basic data completed (yes or no)
Basic data checked by database moderator (moderator's initials)
Full data details complete (yes or no)
Full data details checked by database moderator (moderator's initials)

Currently the database structure does not cater for ep's. All comments welcome. Now's the time to have your say...later may be too late.
 
Is this data base going to include acetates? I did not see that mentioned.
As far as price value are they going to be updated from time to time in case of new quantity finds or whatever?
I can see some problems with sound ratings as that differs from person to person and who is going to make that decision. Can that be updated/changed?

On the whole this looks like it's going to be an awesome data base to which I hope to make some contributions.
 
Acetate designation is included in Group 4 - Wax Details / Wax Type.

I would expect the "official" values once entered to remain fairly constant for at least 10 years, as it would be a major effort to update the values of the entire database. However, the database will include the ability for all G45central members to add unlimited comments, like on Facebook. Members can discuss their own opinions including values and ratings in the running commentaries appearing below each 45.

The comments will be the obvious way to add your own information and opinion, negating the frustration that may occur when you don't agree with the official data and opinion.
 
bosshoss said:
Acetate designation is included in Group 4 - Wax Details / Wax Type.

I would expect the "official" values once entered to remain fairly constant for at least 10 years, as it would be a major effort to update the values of the entire database. However, the database will include the ability for all G45central members to add unlimited comments, like on Facebook. Members can discuss their own opinions including values and ratings in the running commentaries appearing below each 45.

The comments will be the obvious way to add your own information and opinion, negating the frustration that may occur when you don't agree with the official data and opinion.
Click to expand...

I missed that, but I really was thinking a separate listing for acetates. However, that might not be a good idea.

10 years seems like a long time, but it's a start. Good idea to be able to make comments on prices and ratings.
 
vinyl01 said:
I missed that, but I really was thinking a separate listing for acetates. However, that might not be a good idea.

10 years seems like a long time, but it's a start. Good idea to be able to make comments on prices and ratings.
Click to expand...

You will be able to list all acetates separately, simply by setting Wax Type to "acetate", and clicking "show all".
If enough people complained about a value or rating via the comments, then I guess we could update the value a bit quicker than every 10 years....:D
 
Sound ratings and other more personal judgements could, maybe, have an automatic Average-0-meteR inserted to give a fairer grade?

Even the Styles choices Mood/Pace/Beat are going to be all over the place one persons Crazed could be anothers Intense. This could be done with a counter too? - 3 Slow vs 2 Mid-paced.

Complex? A little but better than a first past the post winner perhaps!
 
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