Hey kids! Collect The Whole Set!

How much does personal taste figure into #1-10? Personally, I would think all of these would be far down the list, well below such legendary "monsters" as the Alarm Clocks, Dr. Spec's, or Aztex.
 
Don Julio said:
How much does personal taste figure into #1-10? Personally, I would think all of these would be far down the list, well below such legendary "monsters" as the Alarm Clocks, Dr. Spec's, or Aztex.
Click to expand...

The G200 list is very old and tired. It was compiled virtually before any internet sales had taken place. So the knowledge available then, was gained mostly by personal experience. I had bought up a few top notch collections, and dealt with some very hard-nosed dealers and collectors. So I knew what they had, and didn't have. I had the benefit of various lists and rating systems (notably one comprehensive list rated by Outside Lookin' In of this forum, also a want-list by Greg Frey, and an early draft of TBM without ratings or values). Mike M. offered his suggestions when the list was complete, which resulted in a number of notable changes and additions including Denise.

Rarity, legend and song quality apply in an elaborate symbiosis to produce a G45 rating. It's a collector's rating system, not a music enthusiast's system. It means nothing to people who don't collect vinyl 45s. They should refer to the TBM Top 1000 because it lists the best tracks for listening. The G45 system was always designed to rank the collectablilty of 45s. In other words, which 45s are most likely to create a frenzy among hard core collectors, if offered for sale. It isn't the best ones, or the rarest ones, or the most legendary ones. It's a combination of all 3 factors.

Aztex, Alarm Clocks and Dr. Spec's are just too common to get into the top 10. At the time the list was written, no top 10 record had more than 2 known copies.
 
The downside of this symbiosis is that it values rarity too far above the musical quality and legend factor. John English III was never a legendary record; I would imagine most collectors never heard of it or cared before the G45 came along. Musically, it's only above average. It doesn't bust your brain like the Alarm Clocks or the other truly great garage singles.

The only one in the Top 10 that deserves to be there, in my opinion, is the Sloths.

A "Top 10" that factored, in descending order of musical quality, legend, and rarity, may look like:

10. Vectors - What in the World
9. Spades - You're Gonna Miss Me
8. Sloths - Makin' Love
7. Tremors - Wondering Why
6. Bees - Voices Green and Purple
5. Chob - We're Pretty Quick
4. Green Fuz - Green Fuz
3. Nomads - Thoughts of a Madman
2. Keggs - To Find Out
1. Alarm Clocks - No Reason to Complain
 
It's a great list, but it's probably too little too late for the DJ10 to become a worldwide collector's yardstick phenomenon.

Besides, great strides have already been made with research for the new scientifically based G1000 Project. I've added your name to the G1000 Research Team, so you should now be able to see the G1000 Ranking Project and the G1000 Ranking Project Archive (3rd and 4th in the G45 Bunkers section). These bunkers can only be seen by members of the team. We rated over 1000 45s already, up to the letter "M". Then we had to have a little rest for a couple of years while Professor Moptopmike worked on Beyond TBM. We must start it up again, and if you like you could be involved DJB.

Anyone else who reads this and is not on the team but wants to be, send me a PM and I'll add your name as well.
 
The G45 list is based on rarity first and foremost because it is a list designed for people who collect or desire to collect these records. Conversely, the musical quality / song strength is the sole factor used for creating the "garage-o-meter" ratings used in both TeenBeat Mayhem and Beyond TeenBeat Mayhem.

Mark and I worked on a calculation that bases the rating on all three factors with rarity being the most important / largest percentage used to tabulate positions. The other two come into play as secondary values to prevent a limited awareness rarity being ranked above a legendary, near impossible to find rarity.

For example, if a 45 has been tabled as less than 5 copies known, yet it never appeared on a major compilation (BFTG, Pebbles, Teenage Shutdown, Hipsville 29BC ), the legend factor helps position it accordingly.

Using this three-tier formula, the resulting G45 list will properly rank 45s will emphasis based upon rarity, not popularity.
 
This thread has really brought to a head the differences among the various members of this forum. At one end of the spectrum we have, as aptly named by bosshoss, “music enthusiasts”. At the other end there are what I somewhat disparagingly refer to as the “stamp collectors”. Reality, though, can seldom be pigeon-holed, and I doubt very much any of us who are participants in this forum are fully one or the other.

When I first got into sixties garage all those decades ago, to me it was all about the music. I bought mostly compilations, but then slowly started buying original records, partly as a way to obtain non-comp songs, and partly because the sound quality of the compilations left a lot to be desired. At some point it inevitably turned into “collecting”. When a collection achieves a certain mass, you feel you need to keep improving it; then a certain competitiveness with fellow collector friends creeps in; there is also a certain aesthetic to the labels and their artwork; even somehow just the fact that you have an historical artefact in your possession, and then there's the thrill of exclusivity: finding a record that is unknown to the garage world, or even the world at large.

Although I’m now part “stamp collector” part “music enthusiast”, I would say that I’m still more of the music enthusiast, and there are a few reasons I say that. The first reason is highlighted by the title of this thread, Hey Kids! Collect the Whole Set. Even if I had 9 out of 10 of a sought after Label, but the one I was missing didn’t rate musically for me, there is no way I would want it.

The second reason is that I go after records based primarily on my personal rating system which is entirely based on how much I love the song. To be honest, if I was given a choice between going for a $20 ten-star record, and a $1000 seven-star record, I would go for the latter, because I assume it will be easier to find the $20 record another time, but also because of the collector mentality. The lower the musical rating for a record though, the less inclined I am to pay big bucks for it, and would not even want anything under four stars at all.

Bosshoss, I would venture – in no small part based on this splendid thread he created and almost single-handedly filled with glorious scans – sits closer to the other end of the spectrum; but there is no way on God’s earth that he is not hugely motived by sheer enthusiasm for the music. And I would venture that this is the case for the other “stamp collectors” on this forum.

The third distinguishing factor is when the music enthusiast as opposed to the stamp collector stops collecting. The former is more likely to perceive his collecting behaviour in the broader context of his life, and curtail it for reasons of space, finances, time, and competing interests. He is more likely to come to a certain point where he is content with what he has, and to move on. But like I said, we’re all a mixture of the two, it’s just a question of determining for yourself what your motivation mix is.
 
That all makes sense. Obviously a label "set" does not include the horrible records. For example the USA label set I posted did not include USA798 "The Swinging Liver", or "Sloopy And The Red Moron" by Mister Hipp (USA 867).

Anything listed in TBM makes the cut for me, especially if it's rated 3 or more on the garage-o-meter. I'm quite happy to trust the veritable tome because I know how much intelligent thought went into the selections and omissions.

I'm sure I could make a full CD download of TBM 3 and 4-rated (out of 10) discs that would come close to mind-blowing. Anyone want to challenge me?
 
bosshoss said:
That all makes sense. Obviously a label "set" does not include the horrible records. For example the USA label set I posted did not include USA798 "The Swinging Liver", or "Sloopy And The Red Moron" by Mister Hipp (USA 867). Anything listed in TBM makes the cut for me, especially if it's rated 3 or more on the garage-o-meter. I'm quite happy to trust the veritable tome because I know how much intelligent thought went into the selections and omissions. I'm sure I could make a full CD download of TBM 3 and 4-rated (out of 10) discs that would come close to mind-blowing. Anyone want to challenge me?
Click to expand...
yes! That's an interesting premise.
 
Outside_Lookin_in said:
Although I’m now part “stamp collector” part “music enthusiast”, I would say that I’m still more of the music enthusiast, and there are a few reasons I say that. The first reason is highlighted by the title of this thread, Hey Kids! Collect the Whole Set. Even if I had 9 out of 10 of a sought after Label, but the one I was missing didn’t rate musically for me, there is no way I would want it.

The second reason is that I go after records based primarily on my personal rating system which is entirely based on how much I love the song. To be honest, if I was given a choice between going for a $20 ten-star record, and a $1000 seven-star record, I would go for the latter, because I assume it will be easier to find the $20 record another time, but also because of the collector mentality. The lower the musical rating for a record though, the less inclined I am to pay big bucks for it, and would not even want anything under four stars at all.
Click to expand...

That pretty much sums it up for me as well , especially the personal rating system . Even some records with a high TBM rating will never make it into my collection , because they are not compatible with what I like .
 
I have struggled hard with the stamp collector syndrom, but it seems I have finally managed to cure it. I will try not to remember the piles of shit 45s on cool labels like Studio City and Fenton languishing in storage boxes in the dusty corners of my ManCave dungeon.

Instead I ironically went ahead and bought a small bunch of ACTUAL stamps. Which I stopped collecting in the mid-80s. :crap:
 
Don Julio said:
The downside of this symbiosis is that it values rarity too far above the musical quality and legend factor. John English III was never a legendary record; I would imagine most collectors never heard of it or cared before the G45 came along. Musically, it's only above average. It doesn't bust your brain like the Alarm Clocks or the other truly great garage singles.
Click to expand...

I definitely feel different about the John English III . Then a BIN copy for $ 4000+ came up on ebay some years ago I was trying to figure out a way to fit it into my budget , although it would have been way more than what I ever spent on a single '45 . A fellow forumnite put a stop to all this , but there are still moments than I regret not having pulled the trigger.....
 
Anyone who gets infected by the collector bug gravitates toward the goal of obtaining the finest examples of the category or genre. Available finances, of course, being perhaps the top factor that allows or prevents such acquisitions.

Not to criticize our benevolent beyond measure host of g45, but I do not understand the logic discussed - yes, he shares beyond measure, but up until a few years ago, he was at the front of the offensive when it came to buying one 45 or an entire collection. How is that not a stamp collector mentality, then? He seeks out the best of the best by genre consensus. Because he shares his wares by posting label scans and other eye candy, we then call him a music enthusiast, because the other name brands someone who cares only about obtaining the best? Hypocritical, in a logical, objective sense.

We've hit on related topics here in the past (share vs hoarder mentality, flavor of the month DJ vs diehard collector, etc). but no matter where you think you are, everyone desires to own the "best of the best". Whether it is an original 45 pressing, a bootleg, a compilation containing that song, or even just to "hear it" in some fashion.

Going by that ideology, we are all collectors first, the word enthusiast being a polite way of trying to keep away from the non-collector impression stereotype of collector = objects being far more important than anything else in life.

As for John English III being "little known before coming out on BFTG, I'll grant DJB a mulligan, he was probably feeling a tad tipsy when he posted. I know youngun's like DJB tend to discount the collector past, but JEIII was on everyone's want list in the 1980s and 90s. Still on mine, doubt I'll ever find one heading my way....Now, if you truly want to talk about a rare 45 that isn't on everyone's want list, but has appeared on a well-known compilation, check out Jeannie, Jim Tom & Bill - the only copy I know of resides in Germany via the Duluth record mafia. Personally I'd rather have either one of those over an original pressing of "Green Fuz" or the Keggs.
 
So you do put rarity above musical quality? Or are you saying that Jeannie is a better record than the Keggs?
 
greenfuzz said:
I rated several 3 or 4 songs much higher than the TBM consensus, so it's not an official challenge...but I'd be very interested to see which groups/songs you come up with.
Click to expand...

I have already started the selection process, but it will take a while. There seems to be two types of 45 that rated relatively poorly in TBM, frat style garage, and folk janglers. So I imagine I will be choosing some of those. What I can't decide is whether to make it all uncompiled, or not. Obviously all uncompiled would restrict my choices severely. Also, the only way I can check if it's compiled is via Searchin For Shakes, and that seems to be out of date. If I decide to go uncompiled, I'll probably post the short-list here and ask for help picking the uncompiled ones.
 
Don Julio said:
So you do put rarity above musical quality? Or are you saying that Jeannie is a better record than the Keggs?
Click to expand...

It's a bit more complicated than that. Here is the actual formula

function autosuggest()
{

var sa=document.getElementById("g45sa").value;
var sb=document.getElementById("g45sb").value;
var r=document.getElementById("g45r").value;
var l=document.getElementById("g45l").value;
var m=document.getElementById("g45m").value;
var a=document.getElementById("g45a").value;
var d1=document.getElementById("def1");
d1=d1.options[d1.selectedIndex].value;
var dl1=document.getElementById("deflev1");
dl1=dl1.options[dl1.selectedIndex].value;
var d2=document.getElementById("def2");
d2=d2.options[d2.selectedIndex].value;
var dl2=document.getElementById("deflev2");
dl2=dl2.options[dl2.selectedIndex].value;

sa=parseInt(sa);
sb=parseInt(sb);
r=parseFloat(r);
l=parseFloat(l);
m=parseInt(m);
a=parseInt(a);
d1=parseInt(d1);
dl1=parseInt(dl1);
d2=parseInt(d2);
dl2=parseInt(dl2);

var genreheat=1.00;
var inflation=1.00;

if (sa !==0 && sb !==0 && r !==0 && l!==0)
{
// inferior-side value = 12.5%

if (sa>sb)
{sa=sa*7;
var s=(sa+sb)/8;}
if (sb>sa)
{sb=sb*7;
var s=(sa+sb)/8;}
if (sa==sb)
{var s=sa;}

// calculate sr, song rating x rarity

var sr=0;
switch (r)
{
case 0.5:
sr=s*.2;
break;
case 1:
sr=s*.35;
break;
case 1.5:
sr=s*.8;
break;
case 2:
sr=s*1.5;
break;
case 2.5:
sr=s*2.5;
break;
case 3:
sr=s*4;
break;
case 3.5:
sr=s*6;
break;
case 4:
sr=s*8;
break;
case 4.5:
sr=s*13;
break;
case 5:
sr=s*18;
break;
case 5.5:
sr=s*24;
break;
case 6:
sr=s*30;
break;
case 6.5:
sr=s*36;
break;
case 7:
sr=s*45;
break;
case 7.5:
sr=s*54;
break;
case 8:
sr=s*68;
break;
case 8.5:
sr=s*85;
break;
case 9:
sr=s*120;
break;
case 9.5:
sr=s*175;
break;
case 10:
sr=s*250;
break;
case 11:
sr=s*350;
break;
}

switch (l)
{
case 1:
sr=sr*.3;
break;
case 1.5:
sr=sr*.4;
break;
case 2:
sr=sr*.5;
break;
case 2.5:
sr=sr*.65;
break;
case 3:
sr=sr*.8;
break;
case 3.5:
sr=sr*.95;
break;
case 4:
sr=sr*1.1;
break;
case 4.5:
sr=sr*1.2;
break;
case 5:
sr=sr*1.3;
break;
case 5.5:
sr=sr*1.4;
break;
case 6:
sr=sr*1.5;
break;
case 6.5:
sr=sr*1.62;
break;
case 7:
sr=sr*1.75;
break;
case 7.5:
sr=sr*1.89;
break;
case 8:
sr=sr*2.04;
break;
case 8.5:
sr=sr*2.2;
break;
case 9:
sr=sr*2.4;
break;
case 9.5:
sr=sr*2.8;
break;
case 10:
sr=sr*3.5;
break;
case 11:
sr=sr*5;
break;
}

var gfac=1;

// add factors
var totfacs = sr+m+a;
xval=((totfacs*gfac)/100)*dfac*genreheat*inflation;
//display result
xval=Math.floor(xval);
document.getElementById("valm").value=xval;
autoval();
}
}
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Mr.Segment
Century Records garage/rock/psych discography
Replies
10
Views
15K
MopTopMike
MopTopMike