Interested in your thoughts (warning: collector oriented topic)

[MopTopMike]

I was posting on a thread on Facebook - one of those sell your 45s here, not on ebay groups.
One guy is trying to hawk a 45 for what I think is an absurd amount of money. I did not respond to the post, and did not intend to, until I read that he was tired of receiving "silly offers" for said 45. That's when I posted a "good luck achieving your asking price". The implication being that perhaps the silly offers were more representative of a reasonable price.

Another person chimed in and whined about my post, and accused me of lowballing prices in the garage 45 price guide. I had zero input on pricing in the guide - my contributions were of a discographical nature.

I closed with this notion, and I wonder how a lot of you guys see this: The same guys that ask sky high prices for 45s are the same guys who lowball offers on rare or hard to find 45s. I see this a lot more today than I used to. Why should I sell, say, the Coachmen on Sea Ell for $350 on-line to these folks when asking prices are 650 pounds? This is the reason I sell directly to collectors first instead of posting 45s for sale elsewhere.

 

[Mr.Segment]

I completely agree with you and this topic makes my blood boil almost more than anything else. I'm on a smartphone which limits the lenght of my response somewhat, but said facebook group has a number of members that represent, to me, some of the greedy nature I tesent the most amongst "record collectors"(something I refuse to call myself at this point) People charging premium charges for European VG+ records. I detest them and they are partly ruining any atempt at creating a gentlemanly selling
community

 

[buckeyebeat]

The FB record selling groups are pretty clique-ish. Challenging prices, absurd as they may seem, gets interpreted as 'hater' behavior. I see this as another reinforcement of the general trend of narcissism that no one ever wants to be wrong and simply goes into denial when challenged on a factual basis.

Cases where I've been hit have been when someone claims 'this is a holy grail' and I point out it was a large quantity find X years ago.

 

[MopTopMike]

I agree. Then, these clods have the audacity to argue that it doesn't matter what went on X years ago - prices, quantity finds, number of copies....history has no bearing.

 

[Westex]

I see this a lot more today than I used to. Why should I sell, say, the Coachmen on Sea Ell for $350 on-line to these folks when asking prices are 650 pounds? This is the reason I sell directly to collectors first instead of posting 45s for sale elsewhere.

You're taking money, err, food outta their mouths. You sell to them at $350 so THEY can sell at $650. It seems some folks in the greater record community feel awfully entitled... like you owe it to them at "bro' prices" (hello Waxidermy) so they can move it on at market rate. Nature of the beast.

 

[buckeyebeat]

Yeah, because of the discographies in the Buckeye Beat site I get emails from people looking to buy records from me. Never anything that's actually good - like the Vikings, Alarm Clocks, or Royal Notes, Orangie Hubbard - but flavor of the month DJ crap like Swithold on Pork, Felix Harris on Counterpart - you can always tell its some dork who just found out about the record, went Google crazy, and figured they could con something out of this (in their mind) old classic rock loving mullethead fossil. I always reply - maybe, trade or pay market price - and that is usually the end of it....

 

[MopTopMike]

You're taking money, err, food outta their mouths. You sell to them at $350 so THEY can sell at $650. It seems some folks in the greater record community feel awfully entitled... like you owe it to them at "bro' prices" (hello Waxidermy) so they can move it on at market rate. Nature of the beast.

I'll gladly sell to them for 650 pounds. I gotta have food on my table, too.

 

[diggingtheslowness]

For me I think it´s a hard road cause the only way I can afford rare and obscure records is to be a record dealer. i work with children with autism to pay my rent and put food on my table, doesn´t pay much more than that so I deal records to afford buying records.

I take almost every chance i can to earn some extra money so i can spend money on the records i want.

I would be happy to go another way but I started collecting 60s related record maybe 10 years ago so i "missed the bus" to finding lots of things cheap and i don´t have a well paid job.


to Joes defense he probably paid over 300 uk pounds for the Glass sun.

 

[buckeyebeat]

to Joes defense he probably paid over 300 uk pounds for the Glass sun.

You were doing fine until this. I am SO tired of people playing the "i paid xxx so I need to sell for xxx" - especially since I buy rare funk and soul 45s (mostly for my Ohio collection, thankfully I have 90% of what I want now) and I get this all the time. What someone paid for a record is NOT my problem - it's the SELLERS problem. Many people paid top price for Northen soul and deep funk records at their peak, or unwillingly paid heavy for a quantity title - and when they want to sell insist on recouping their funds for something that is often worth half or a third of their buying price.
The last thing you should be thinking when you a buy an expensive record for your collection is how much you can sell it for.

 

[legbarecords]

My experience with these groups is fairly new. I thought it'd be a great way to trade and sell with other collectors. Sort of like when I use to go to a lot of record shows. I quickly became aware that the waters were shark infested. Buyers and sellers alike can act with a certain entitlement that is irking. I quickly realized it's because 95% are mostly dealers. And as Mike stated, the prices are totally flipper oriented. When they buy they pay nothing. When they sell they want top dollar. But the worst is their trade mentalitly. I've always loved trading. I get something, you get something. These people send me lists of common, middle-of-the-road records priced sky high. So iritating. They don't want to pay a fair price, nor do they want to offer fair trades.

 

[MopTopMike]

I agree, Greg. I also like to use the example of a record from 1978 that was so huge on the Northern all nighter scene in the early 2000s - The Futures "Party Time Man" on Philly International. Copies were selling for as much as $200 at the peak. I found 4 or 5 copies for a few bucks and easily sold them. I remember three different DJs spinning the song at the Blackpool weekender in the fall of 2002.

Now, you cannot give this record away for more than $20. Do the people who bought this for $200 ever think they are gonna get their money back? Most understand that, no, they will not. Which is why most northern soul collectors are a bit more schooled in ways of buying and selling than most other genres. There are more collectors than any other genre as well.

I wasn't gonna name names on here, but the guy "flogging" his copy of "Silence Of The Morning" for more than 300 pounds most likely won't get that price*. He said he is a collector and not a "DJ", therefore, he got hosed by overpaying at "scene" price".

Unless, another DJ feels he/she needs it to be in the clique - a sheep DJ (one of the reasons why I never consider attending these weekender 60s events - most DJs play the same 20-30 records). I'm sure most of the overseas 60s scene DJs are nice people, several have bought 45s from me. However, there are a handful of entitlement oriented scene DJs who think the top price they want, or can con out of someone else, is the permanent value of a record.

*I myself need an upgrade, but I would no pay more than $250 for a NM copy - and that is also top dollar in the collector world.

 

[Westex]

It's one thing to go to a band member or some average joe on the streets and offer up a nice chunk of walking around money for a disc... $300 or $400 is fair price when you expect to sell it for an additional $100 or $200 later on down the line. It's good business on some level.

But there's a growing trend of folks that are paying decent money for records from other collectors and dealers, but their intent is not to file but flip.

Working a deal with Dough Hanners for a few dozen 45s worth twelve or thirteen grand for ten grand... ehhh... Hanners probably knows you're gonna be moving some of those along and recouping some of your money... but he's got cash in hand and sold a handful of 45s that might have taken years to sell otherwise. He's a dealer. He sells records.

You manage to get BW to sell you a low four figure Cali fuzzer for $700, hold on to it for a few years and then sell it at market value... I don't see too many quibbles there.

In the past few years ebay, and popsike, and collectors frenzy, and American Pickers, and these storage lockers shows seem to have created a new kind of "What's your bottom line? There's no meat left on the bone for me there" sorta record buyers. The Cavern Discos guy was an example of this: He went off road tripping and used his contacts and references to work his way into collections and get deals he would not have otherwise had access to ("I'm sending *dude* over to your house... he's good people so cut him some good deals"). People were burned when those some records were up for bid before he had even made it back off the road. He is now out of the record business and moved onto some other venture.

And on the same note... this site is horrifying:
http://recordflipper.wordpress.com/

 

[buckeyebeat]

Is Cavern Discos the guy who was mixing a few garage boots - and not mentioning / knowing they were boots - with original 60s 45s? I think that was mentioned on here before.

I think I'm gonna make a large sign that says 'record flipper' and wear it to any record sales event. Like a certain dealer in here in the NW took a 45 and painted 'I buy 45s' and wore as a neck pendant.

My biggest record investment / future cash in mistake happened c. 1989. I was listening to a couple relatively new 45s, for $3 or so a piece in a Boston record store. One was a interesting cover of a Euro 60s song I liked, the other was an original song that had the feel of 60s punk but was a contemporary song. I bought one, the original song, which was "Touch Me I'm Sick" by Mudhoney. The one I passed on was "Love Buzz" by Nirvana. I still think the Mudhoney record is great and better than anything Nirvana recorded, but...

 

[legbarecords]

I have lots of friends that deal. It's not a problem for me. I also understand their need to make a profit when they aren't buying for themselves, and we've always managed to have mutually beneficial experiences when it came to records. The sites in question are not devoid of these like minded people but they are in the minority. My thinking when I first entered the world of Facebook record selling was that we would all treat each other respectfuly. With the common goal of lowering the price by side-stepping all the fees, shills, and other such nonsense on ebay. Unfortunately the very people that drive me nuts on ebay have rushed to populate these other options. The funniest ones are those who still beleive that they are in an auction environment. One of the modern ebay mold, where no one can just up and say... That price is utterly ridiculous. For all the world to see.

 

[Phil Hope]

agree cpompletely I'm on the hassle free one and R&b one but it seems more often than not to be the same records going round and round and the prices never dropping when it hasnt sold previously?
Could have been a good idea if as said above shills and fees etc could be avoided but maybe its an opprtunity missed?
Is there a group for buying garage 45's on there?

 

[buckeyebeat]

Theres a lot of crossover between the groups. I think there's three that suppose to sell soul 45s - and one for soul wants. The 45 trade and sell and the group MTM mentioned first have the most garage but neither have US garage 45s as the first priority - and really, all the groups have the same issues. It's just the way the 'social media' works. If I see anymore copies of the Mystics on Teako (a formerly unsellable record pushed by hipster DJs) or the woman who sells the worst popcorn crap on the hassle free group I'm gonna start selling Osmonds "Yo Yo" and "doing the Banana Split' 45s as "must have floor fillers".

I would like to find a place to move standard 60s rock, psych, and 70s private LPs - Acid Archives stuff - on FB or somewhere not eBay.

 

[legbarecords]

Theres a lot of crossover between the groups. I think there's three that suppose to sell soul 45s - and one for soul wants. The 45 trade and sell and the group MTM mentioned first have the most garage but neither have US garage 45s as the first priority - and really, all the groups have the same issues. It's just the way the 'social media' works. If I see anymore copies of the Mystics on Teako (a formerly unsellable record pushed by hipster DJs) or the woman who sells the worst popcorn crap on the hassle free group I'm gonna start selling Osmonds "Yo Yo" and "doing the Banana Split' 45s as "must have floor fillers".

I would like to find a place to move standard 60s rock, psych, and 70s private LPs - Acid Archives stuff - on FB or somewhere not eBay.

Buckeye, this was precisely the topic of conversation with a friend and I lately! I have a load of this type of LP and nowhere to move it off to! It's the kind of stuff I buy mostly now at flea markets and estate sales as 45's are becoming more scarce. But I hate messing with ebay on things like that. Some quite high end but a lot of 8-20 dollar items. I wish there was a group that delt with LP's like that. Should we try to start one?

 

[Manos E. Brazos]

Okay, Buckeye and Greg, here is the 500 pound gorilla in the room. What we need is... Some GOOD record shows. I really believe the market is there, because so many people are sick of the on line crap.

 

[chas_kit]

I would like to find a place to move standard 60s rock, psych, and 70s private LPs - Acid Archives stuff - on FB or somewhere not eBay.

I wish more folks would post to the set sale section of this forum. Plenty of us are looking for 'ordinary' lps along with garage 45s. For example, I need a copy of Jack Linkletter Presents a Folk Festival. But, I don't want to pay more than $5 for it.

 

[Frantic]

I wish more folks would post to the set sale section of this forum. Plenty of us are looking for 'ordinary' lps along with garage 45s. For example, I need a copy of Jack Linkletter Presents a Folk Festival. But, I don't want to pay more than $5 for it.

WOW...Just sent that one to Goodwill this week...