Sig-Heils - WTF!?

gregk25 said:
If you are sick of seeing subvertiveness being fully imbeded into the capitalistic cash-flow, you automatically land at something like the iron cross or a swastika. it's been often said, punks in the 70s wore swastikas just to shock the older generation, but I'd guess somebody as smart and schooled as Malcolm McLaren had realised that it is about the only symbol that is impossible to capitalise on (outside of a certain political target group).
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A few years prior to Malcolm McLaren and Siouxsie Sioux making hay out of the use of the swastika, The Electric Eels were doing the exact same thing in Ohio by incorporating the image into their very infrequent gig posters. Not to mention wearing deliberately offensive t-shirts utilizing racist/Nazi imagery. Eels leader John Morton is on record as saying all of this was a deliberate attempt at provocation. So, by the time the UK punk scene got around to adopting the imagery/symbols it was already old hat to some.
 
There is a great article somewhere on the net that was linked to priorly on one of the pre-g45 forums telling the tale of how popular the iron cross became amongst surfers and kids in the States early to mid 60s. At one point it was decided to tone this down and the companies producing these were more or less told to stop production/distribution. Can anyone link to this again? I´ve tried finding it to no avail.
 
Watching Jefferson Airplane's performance at Woodstock, it looks like Jorma Kaukonen is wearing a crystal swastika. A gift from a Hell's Angel perhaps?
 
May I wade in on the iron cross issue ... during the early 60's when I was a young teen, in Junior High School at Metal Shop, we would cut sheet copper with a jewelers coping saw to produce Maltese Crosses ( I never heard them called Iron Crosses) There were no connotations involved. In fact you could buy these in any 5 & 10 store at that time. Just a cool fad like the Rat Fink ... what you now call trending. In fact I think the Rat Fink wore a Maltese Cross. Yeah I'm an old guy, been there done that!
 
Mr.Segment said:
There is a great article somewhere on the net that was linked to priorly on one of the pre-g45 forums telling the tale of how popular the iron cross became amongst surfers and kids in the States early to mid 60s. At one point it was decided to tone this down and the companies producing these were more or less told to stop production/distribution. Can anyone link to this again? I´ve tried finding it to no avail.
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That sounds like containing essential information about this subject.
 
TomK said:
May I wade in on the iron cross issue ... during the early 60's when I was a young teen, in Junior High School at Metal Shop, we would cut sheet copper with a jewelers coping saw to produce Maltese Crosses ( I never heard them called Iron Crosses) There were no connotations involved. In fact you could buy these in any 5 & 10 store at that time. Just a cool fad like the Rat Fink ... what you now call trending. In fact I think the Rat Fink wore a Maltese Cross. Yeah I'm an old guy, been there done that!
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Interesting. The Maltese Cross looks a little different though (and has a different history):

black_maltese_cross_postcard-p239724278682094999en7lo_210.jpg
 
Wearing vintage gear and not being korny is difficult. Not impossible but difficult. Dressing in costume of any kind will garner funny looks and likely a comment or two. Some people just can't resist the bait. I love old band photos with folks wearing Iron crosses and such. Couldn't pay me to wear one. I have an old Mouse hot rod shirt. I would look absolutely ridiculous walking down the road in it in my 40's. My 14 year old can pull it off though.
 
legbarecords said:
I have an old Mouse hot rod shirt. I would look absolutely ridiculous walking down the road in it in my 40's. My 14 year old can pull it off though.
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Yes. There is an unspoken age limit. I would say 18-19 max.

But I think the story behind it´s popularity in the 60s is charming.
 
During my seventies punk rock days I wore all kinds of Nazi regalia, Iron Crosses, Swastika armbands, SS skull heads... There was a local shop that sold all kinds of crap like that. What can I say? I was young and stupid (as opposed to old and stupid like nowadays.)
 
axel said:
VERY interesting that you use the term "greasers" in this context!
I have a book called "Street Style" by Ted Polhemus. There's a chapter about a scene called "greasers" in England in the late Sixties. They were wanna-be Hells Angels, sometimes even wanna-be bikers, meaning they didn't even own a bike but dressed like Hells Angels. Some were too young to own a bike anyway.
They were majorly influenced by the movie "Wild Angels".
"Street Style" has a list of some of their favourite sounds:
Bobby Fuller Four- "I Fought The Law"; Nashville Teens- "Tobacco Road"; Rolling Stones- "Paint It Black"; Surfaris- "Wipe Out", Wild Angels- "Nervous Breakdown".
In my mind they were the first real "60s punks". Because not only did they listen to raw and cool sixties rock'n'roll, but they also adopted the radical outsider image of the Hells Angels. Svastikas and Iron Crosses were a common thing, as they were for the Hells Angels' appearance.
I couldn't find much about this scene in the net. Does anybody have more information about the "greasers" in England in the late sixties?
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Yeah, I knew a lot of old Greasers back in the day, often saw them wearing German helmets and Iron Crosses. Strange thing is, one gang I knew, who called themselves The Black Pigs, were heavily into the Incredible String band! These guys did security at the Stones in the park gig, paving the way for the cock u
p at Altamont.
 
Clear Light said:
Yeah, I knew a lot of old Greasers back in the day, often saw them wearing German helmets and Iron Crosses. Strange thing is, one gang I knew, who called themselves The Black Pigs, were heavily into the Incredible String band! These guys did security at the Stones in the park gig, paving the way for the cock u
p at Altamont.
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Hey, cool! I couldn't find much about them in the net. So, is it true they were more into mid-sixties rock'n'roll than into late sixties and early seventies hard rock? And is it true that a lot of them didn't even own a bike, but were just doing it for the style and image of looking like Hells Angels? I must confess I totally love that "wanna-be" biker thing (if it really was like that)...
I'd like to know more about that scene. Did they call themselves "Greasers"? Did they merely "copy" the Hells Angels or did they have their own sort of identity?
 
Yeah, the Greasers were mostly into fifties/sixties rock n roll, they were closely connected to Rockers and teds, but yes, they mainly aspired to being bikers rather than actually owning motorcycles. Greased back hair and long sideburns, leather jackets, chains, boots were the look. Eddie Cochran, Gene Vincent, Chuck Berry - that was the sort of music they were into. This might be of interest to you: http://vimeo.com/1640442 you can see the occasional greaser amongst the teddy boys in the audience.
 
WOW!!!
That film looks awesome. Watching it for two seconds gave me instant chills. Leather, jeans, girls, greasers all over the place! Svastikas and everything, the whole programme! Cool music, too. Cool camera work, too.
And tons of atmosphere...
Looks absolutely essential. I will watch this with gusto.
THANK YOU!! :)

P.S.: Long live the "ROAD RATS"! ;)
 
Hmmm
axel said:
WOW!!!
That film looks awesome. Watching it for two seconds gave me instant chills. Leather, jeans, girls, greasers all over the place! Svastikas and everything, the whole programme! Cool music, too. Cool camera work, too.
And tons of atmosphere...
Looks absolutely essential. I will watch this with gusto.
THANK YOU!! :)

P.S.: Long live the "ROAD RATS"! ;)
Click to expand...

Yeah, it's a cool film, I think you can get it on DVD now. The Lord Sutch sequence is worth the price of admission alone!

PS: I live in Windsor Hell's Angel territory, the Road Rats aren't so popular round this way ;)
 
Bo's confusion... 2 years ago he'd a been jamming those songs out for a tripped out psyche audience these fag smokin' n' beer swillin' revivalists want it primitive,. The preening of the Teddy Boys greased back locks is high appreciation from these lower working class boys. Gotta look my best for Bo. The original Edwardian Teds became the First Mods. The out dressing your conservative bosses is this mainly only a British thing?

Fair play to em' cos amongst this university educated cocaine sniffing prog rock toss was being pushed on the radio these low grades left school, or expelled, at 15 for an apprenticeship at the local factory want their music stupid.

My Dad was a 50's Ted, had a band "Dave & the Villians" played covers at the local cinema, auditioned for a nation UK TV talent show (What was the Hughie Green show?.... Opportunity Knocks!... yes) got my Mum pregnant and well ya'know then worked and forgot his performing.

My first flirtation with the power of clothes came at 9 or 10 being dressed up for the end of term school fancy dress disco by Dad he drain-piped flared trousers put bright soccer socks underneath, rolled under my Mums powder Blue Jacket sleeves it hung perfectly to my knees and gave me a bootlace tie and greased my long 70's hair into a D.A. (Ducks Arse). Laid a few moves on me and stuck a comb in my pocket. I felt like the bee's fuckin' knees. I came second to one of the Pinks' boys who was a fairly good chimney sweep. But the dance floor action, in these empowering clothes, shit I have been addicted to "dressing up" in fancy duds ever since.
 
Clear Light said:
PS: I live in Windsor Hell's Angel territory, the Road Rats aren't so popular round this way ;)
Click to expand...
I didn't know the Road Rats were a big organization. I just saw a guy in the film and thought it was a small bunch of guys like the Black Pigs you mentioned. You know, I like small units...
 
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