What is Sixties Garage?

[Outside_Lookin_in]

the main problem with the ex garage band members were those who thought Eric Clapton was a great guitarist: once you take this as a fact, you'll never play right again.

 

[bosshoss]

"60's Garage rock" is old men babblin' about something that never existed at the time

Whatever it is, it's cooler than anything else that ever existed. Or never existed.

 

[Michael W]

"60's Garage rock" is old men babblin' about something that never existed at the time

A bit like Impressionism then?

 

[tom kirby]

Boss, I always love your commentary. I'm surprised no one has mentioned more specifically the instrumentation and technological capabilities available in those times and how they impacted the sound of the recordings. I know these don't apply to every recording deemed to fit within the vague and basically undefinable term "Garage", but are present in many of your favorite songs. These being the "Scream", and the Fuzz and the compact organ sound of a Farfisa, Vox and other like keyboards. Plus the Analog on 4 track tape with the smaller, less powerful amplifiers and speakers. To me "Garage" is a sound, not a band since there was no such thing as "Garage" when the music was being made. The bands you all have mentioned in some way or another were emulatling the The Beatles or more the whole British Invasion influence and basic jazz/blues influences. Todays or more modern day "Garage Bands" do now have something to emulate which has since been defined as the bands who played the music in the '60s now called "Garage Rock" and "Garage Band". It's that sound which is harder to capture with all the technological advances that have been made over the past 50 or so years in both the equipment used by the musicians and that used to record the music. Anyway, this is a great topic and discussion.

 

[bosshoss]

BIt's that sound which is harder to capture with all the technological advances that have been made over the past 50 or so years in both the equipment used by the musicians and that used to record the music.

That's right Tom. I don't know why anyone would be bothered trying to capture it 50 years later anyway. For a start, there's so much original worldwide '60s garage material in existence already, that hardly anyone (no-one?) has heard all of it. The authentic item will always be preferable to the imitation. For every re-hash you listen to, it's robbing you of time to enjoy the real thing.

 

[MopTopMike]

Modern bands either get it right (whom I call purists who re-create down to the last minute detail, like Beatlemania did in the mid to late 1970s to recreate the original, Beatle era experience) or, most often, just borrow influences with little regard to authenticity.

Younger folks want to experience music in a live performance fashion - they do not want to sit around and listen to old recordings all of the time. I think it is good that youth carry a rock & roll torch (not the bland, boring, mass appeal junk) and continue to explore on their own terms. With some luck, a kid will stumble upon Nuggets / Pebbles/ Back From The grave and be reborn. That's all us long time fanatics can ever hope for, otherwise, when we all die off, no one will care (like what is currently transpiring with 1950s doo-wop / group harmony sounds).

 

[bosshoss]

I agree that live music offers the chance for a level playing field (old vs new). But recordings are problematic, given the demise of almost all analog recording techniques. It's hard enough to create something original and interesting, without having to worry about being authentic to a bygone era. It's like using Photoshop to emulate printing on a Letterpress machine. It can be done easily, but the results are not as good as the real deal.

http://www.lettermpress.com/LetterMpress/Home.html

 

[Outside_Lookin_in]

For me, any garage 45 must exhibit significant stylistic influence from the pre-1967 output of at least one of this select group of mainstream 60s bands.

UK - Beatles, Rolling Stones, Kinks, Animals, Yardbirds, Zombies
USA - Wailers, 13th Floor Elevators, Byrds

Other contenders such as Pretty Things, Troggs, Who, Love etc. are generally covered by Beatles, Stones or Kinks. Bob Dylan is covered by The Byrds. In truth, the Elevators are probably covered by The Beatles, Stones and Kinks.

That definition probably covers 98% of garage, Boss, but my contention is that your filter would allow too much with maybe only 20% of it being listenable - which was why I didn't allow the Macquarie dictionary definition. I believe that a satisfactory definition of garage should only capture what is good - or at least a reasonable consensus of what is good among fans. There are many here who would argue that the TBM discography is based on reasonable consensus; I'm trying to find an abstract (i.e., and underlying formula) way to find consensus and for it to apply transnationally, rather than just the for the USA. After all, if you can come up with a comprehensive discography complete with ratings, there has to be some underlying uniting reality to it. The question of influences is important, but may not be sufficient.

I'd be curious to know how you would classify the following songs in terms of influences. This isn't to test you: I just want to better understand your process, and am genuinely unsure how you'd classify these songs. A couple of them I would say were influenced by Del Shannon (the Belgian & Italian tunes), but do you put Shannon's style down to one of your aforementioned influences? (I consider all the following to be outstanding examples garage music, by the way.)

Twiliters with Bill Kenedy – (Everybody's goin' to) rollerland
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP4DWXgc56E)
Rick’s Continentals – I don’t know
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZhmVCJuv04)
François Nicot & les Ritmix – Murain chee-cha
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnCmtGu89nU)
Bobby James & the Esquires – Don’t you do that
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFklh_4iTMw)
Tanya Day & the Nu-Notes – I get so lonely
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-6hgf5OO_A)
Cacus – Danvanti a noi
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CDTr1l1ock)

 

[bosshoss]

I believe that a satisfactory definition of garage should only capture what is good - or at least a reasonable consensus of what is good among fans.

Yes. of course. My list of required influences was not intended to be a definition. The concept of garage is way too fuzzy to be confined to a rigid definition. For one thing, it changes slightly over time.

 

[Stampy]

Yes. of course. My list of required influences was not intended to be a definition. The concept of garage is way too fuzzy to be confined to a rigid definition.

Love the facetious way you say this! :-)

 

[bosshoss]

Twiliters with Bill Kenedy – (Everybody's goin' to) rollerland
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oP4DWXgc56E)
This I would class as a '60s rocker. Main influences surf instrumentals, Trashmen/Rivingtons, perhaps Del Shannon. It could be lumped into garage, or divided off into a separate category, as one sees fit. Killer.

Rick’s Continentals – I don’t know
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZhmVCJuv04)
This has a strong "Louie Louie" styled riff. Obviously influenced by The Wailers (or other Louie Louie versions). Killer.

François Nicot & les Ritmix – Murain chee-cha
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KnCmtGu89nU)
You got me. Minor key Bluesy beat with organ drone. Vocals are obviously pure American style, but imagine Eric Burdon singing, and it would be not far away from the Animals sound. Great.

Bobby James & the Esquires – Don’t you do that
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kFklh_4iTMw)
Bass riff is taken directly from "I Saw Her Standing There". Enough said. Great.

Tanya Day & the Nu-Notes – I get so lonely
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P-6hgf5OO_A)
It's a '60 rocker at heart. Brill building sound revved up, except for the lead break and outro, which are Yardbirds style rave-ups. Bo Diddley thrown in for good measure. Never heard this, it's very good.

Cacus – Danvanti a noi
(https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CDTr1l1ock)[/quote]
It's based on "Heart Full Of Soul". Very good.

 

[Outside_Lookin_in]

Okay, thanks Boss. I guess you should expand your list of American influences slightly: I can't imagine the Twiliters' number not being lumped together with the garage superset. Subdivisions are another matter of course, but peripheral to the subject at hand.

 

[EXPO67]

A strong influence on the more gritty rhythm 'n blues inspired USA teenage groups were Them.
Their 1964/65 period singles are quite possibly even more influential than The Kinks...

 

[Ned]

A strong influence on the more gritty rhythm 'n blues inspired USA teenage groups were Them.
Their 1964/65 period singles are quite possibly even more influential than The Kinks...

I was thinking the same thing. The main difference was The Kinks were on Shindig & I don't remember Them being on national TV. Also, the Kinks got a lot more airplay & it was much easier to find their 45s & LPs 1964 - 1966. Just about every band I saw live did more Kinks covers than Them numbers. This is not to dismiss the importance of Them, just that the Kinks were more visable and heard coast to coast on radio while Them had a much lower profile.

Ned

 

[tom kirby]

I was thinking the same thing. The main difference was The Kinks were on Shindig & I don't remember Them being on national TV. Also, the Kinks got a lot more airplay & it was much easier to find their 45s & LPs 1964 - 1966. Just about every band I saw live did more Kinks covers than Them numbers. This is not to dismiss the importance of Them, just that the Kinks were more visable and heard coast to coast on radio while Them had a much lower profile.

Ned

I have to agree with Ned for the reasons he mentioned. The Kinks, Yardbirds and Zombies had more influence, at least in the Mid-west. You didn't hear a band play without them doing a cover "You Really Got Me". Ha, we even put ruffles on our shirts because we saw the Kinks on TV with ruffles.

 

[EXPO67]

My reckoning was that The Kinks were banned from touring or making TV appearances in America from mid 1965. Obviously an important period in time for young teens wanting to form a rock 'n roll band.
But I wasn't there at the time so it's all my assumptions

 

[tom kirby]

My reckoning was that The Kinks were banned from touring or making TV appearances in America from mid 1965. Obviously an important period in time for young teens wanting to form a rock 'n roll band.
But I wasn't there at the time so it's all my assumptions

The Kinks didn't need a lot of TV to be an influence with their music.

 

[Frantic]

My reckoning was that The Kinks were banned from touring or making TV appearances in America from mid 1965. Obviously an important period in time for young teens wanting to form a rock 'n roll band.
But I wasn't there at the time so it's all my assumptions

Betty Kaye a promoter here in Sacramento (who Alec and I knew personally) is 100% responsible for the Kinks being banned from touring the U.S.

 

[eleelandc]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned more specifically the instrumentation and technological capabilities available in those times and how they impacted the sound of the recordings.

Yeah, one of the local bands here in Houston is close, but the guitar gear was from the 80's to the point that I found it distracting to watch. I put a Hagstrom III and a tiny Supro amp on loan to em to try and get em a little closer. They quickly discovered most of the predictable pitfalls that vintage gear provides (flaws that either come from being 50 years old, or just design flaws that the companies might have fixed up in the next models later on) but I am hoping next time I see em that they have worked out a fix and it is a little closer to right.
Like maybe they have these same dancers from the video!

 

[The Phantom]

Well, as a longtime "Garage-Aficionado" and maker of a couple' comps, let me tell you MY definition of "Garage-Music/Rock: After the groundbreaking appearance of The Beatles at the "Ed Sullivan Show" on 9 February 1964, hundredthousands (mostly) male kids started to let their hair grow, wear Mop-Tops, bought cheap instruments AND cleaned out their parents GARAGES to make space for rehearsal room and started their own bands.