G45 GBase Thinktank

[Mr.Segment]

The only really sensible thing is to have soundclips of absolutely everything, regardless of how "common", "rare" or "well known" certain songs are.

You do know what an impossibly large workload that would be for the few able to fulfill your dreams regarding this particular non-sensible demand? I didn't think this would first and foremost be an aural database, but a factual one?

 

[Sebastian]

You do know what an impossibly large workload that would be for the few able to fulfill your dreams regarding this particular non-sensible demand? I didn't think this would first and foremost be an aural database, but a factual one?

I know. I didn't bring up the idea that there should be sound clips. A purely factual, non-aural database would be fine with me. Would prefer one with audio though.

 

[Monster Mike]

I for one, am only fairly interested in the facts! Ask my wife. What I am interested in is killer 45's and hearing more of them. I think that should be the goal of the database, to include as much audio reference as possible. I don't want to see little checked boxes that say tambourine, maracas, etc., I want to hear them!
I think the main idea should actually be to make "The Worlds Largest Garage Compilation...EVER!" (with facts, too!)

 

[bosshoss]

I think the main idea should actually be to make "The Worlds Largest Garage Compilation...EVER!" (with facts, too!)

That won't happen, at least not hosted at G45Central or any other site owned by me. I have no intention of sifting through potentially dozens of angry emails each week from people complaining (rightly) that I'm stealing their intellectual property. Not to mention the hundreds or thousands of hours work required to set it up.
If someone wants to set up a host and upload the 50,000 tunes, plus provide an email address where I can forward complaints, then we could set links to that host via the database. I will let some other patsy deal with that gigantic never-ending headache.

Someone like Youtube.

 

[Frantic]

I want to hear them!

Here ya go, but it'll cost ya. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_pg_3?rh=n:5174,k:garage psych&page=3&keywords=garage psych&ie=UTF8&qid=1375278560:

 

[bosshoss]

I think some people have not understood the potential of the online database idea. It shouldn't be primarily a reference site. We already have a reference (at least for USA '60s garage bands) - it's called Teenbeat Mayhem. We should not be trying to duplicate what already exists. It doesn't need to be a wholesale online media bootlegging operation either. Youtube does that very well already.

What it should be is ...a toolkit for collectors and enthusiasts of '60s garage music. It should be set up to provide different ways to view and organise our individual listening and collecting activities. The power of the searchable database would allow this flexibility. Imagine you want to see which Texas 45s valued below $100, but rated above 3 stars, which you do not already have in your collection. Easy via the database. Log in with password, click State= TX, Value < 100, own = "no"

Here's another example. You want to play fuzz-drenched killers all night at a party. Click "fuzz guitar", "screams" and "greater than 3 stars". No need to log in, as there is no personal collection info involved. A listing appears. Not every detail of each song, just a basic listing showing the artist, title and star rating.

This is how we can have the online system which complements TBM, without competing with it. There is no need to display all the info for each record in reference format on a single page. That would only compete with Mike's book which is still new. We can do that later, when TBM has fully established itself in the market. Mike wants to help with this huge project, but we need to support him by not undermining the unique qualities of his book which took years of hard work to complete.

 

[Monster Mike]

Here ya go, but it'll cost ya. http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=sr_pg_3?rh=n:5174,k:garage psych&page=3&keywords=garage psych&ie=UTF8&qid=1375278560:

I was just going off previous mentions of adding soundclips via YouTube etc. Not looking for a way to skirt having to pay for music. Just dreaming of the ultimate garage 45 hunters tool. Can't blame a guy for dreaming can you?
Actually, why not add a link to amazon/iTunes to buy the mp3 or album where the track is featured ? Surely this could be advertising income for the project...

 

[MopTopMike]

I for one, am only fairly interested in the facts! Ask my wife. What I am interested in is killer 45's and hearing more of them. I think that should be the goal of the database, to include as much audio reference as possible. I don't want to see little checked boxes that say tambourine, maracas, etc., I want to hear them!
I think the main idea should actually be to make "The Worlds Largest Garage Compilation...EVER!" (with facts, too!)

Hate to sound snooty, but if you want to hear something, buy the compilation or reissue. Trade tracks with other people.
Until copyright law is changed to allow for orphan works (won't be for free, either) it is way too much of a hassle.
Ty Wagner's lawyer(s) are currently going after those who have bootlegged his records. Tim W. paid him back royalties for using "Slander" and "No Count". A label was planning a Chattahoochee label comp of '60s sides, but cannot include "No Count" because of the high royalty cost to include it.

 

[Monster Mike]

Hate to sound snooty, but if you want to hear something, buy the compilation or reissue. Trade tracks with other people.
Until copyright law is changed to allow for orphan works (won't be for free, either) it is way too much of a hassle.
Ty Wagner's lawyer(s) are currently going after those who have bootlegged his records. Tim W. paid him back royalties for using "Slander" and "No Count". A label was planning a Chattahoochee label comp of '60s sides, but cannot include "No Count" because of the high royalty cost to include it.

I guess I misunderstood the concept. There was talk of soundclips and I assumed that a database was for reference. Thats two strikes, so I'll gracefully excuse myself before striking out completely....

 

[bosshoss]

I guess I misunderstood the concept. There was talk of soundclips and I assumed that a database was for reference. Thats two strikes, so I'll gracefully excuse myself before striking out completely....

All opinions are received with thanks. No need to worry if your ideas turn out to be different from anyone else's in the thinktank.

 

[Mr.Segment]

I don't know if this is too much to ask for, but apart from all those "specifications" I'd love something that's not only cold facts and nerd stuff: some kind of annotation field, where a story can be told. The story of the band ("Lead singer was decapitated in a motorcycle accident a month after the 45 came out"; "Guitar player went on to play in Manowar in the 80ies") or a story about the record, if there is one ("500 were pressed, 490 were tossed in a lake by the band members"), etc. Some kind of liner notes if you will.

This would combine all the knowledge/database stuff with something else to enjoy, like a mixture between TBM and the G500.

I think this is a really good idea. That's, partly, what made the g45 list such an enjoyable read. The tongue in cheek humour compared with facts. This worked very well in the Acid Archives book.

 

[Perkeo]

The Rockin` Country Style database for rockabilly has 30 second soundclips, not of everything but it has more all the time...thankfully there isn`t/wasn`t a RAB collector`s forum full of members worrying about whether THAT could exist or not!

 

[bosshoss]

The Rockin` Country Style database for rockabilly has 30 second soundclips, not of everything but it has more all the time...thankfully there isn`t/wasn`t a RAB collector`s forum full of members worrying about whether THAT could exist or not!

It can exist. If someone else hosts it. Maybe a consortium of all the people who want it most? If 10 of you can get together, it would only cost $3 each per year. And you can take turns in handling the uploading duties and legal hassles, a month each per year. You may need to set aside the entire month each year, to handle the collecting, sorting, editing, naming, uploading and linking of a couple of thousand tunes each. Even at that ferocious pace, it would take all 10 of you 2 years to complete the task.

I'll gladly allow linking each track to the proposed g45 database. Of course with a legal notice clarifying that G45 is not the host, and showing email contact details for each member of the consortium. But you wouldn't be satisfied with a 30 second clip that cuts out before the lead break, surely? On youtube, you get the whole track.

 

[Perkeo]

It can exist. If someone else hosts it. Maybe a consortium of all the people who want it most? If 10 of you can get together, it would only cost $3 each per year. And you can take turns in handling the uploading duties and legal hassles, a month each per year. You may need to set aside the entire month each year, to handle the collecting, sorting, editing, naming, uploading and linking of a couple of thousand tunes each. Even at that ferocious pace, it would take all 10 of you 2 years to complete the task.

I'll gladly allow linking each track to the proposed g45 database. Of course with a legal notice clarifying that G45 is not the host, and showing email contact details for each member of the consortium. But you wouldn't be satisfied with a 30 second clip that cuts out before the lead break, surely? On youtube, you get the whole track.

It would be interesting to find out how much in the way of legal hassles RCS has to go through, they seem to have kind of a weird hosting arrangement, there`s an .edu in the URL...hey I totally understand that setting something up similar would be a huge hassle, I`m just glad that RCS exists, it`s an awesome resource, and I think your idea is very well considered and smart Bosshoss, and I would never suggest that a gbase thinktank needs to be complete with hosted full length clips. i still like those 30 second RCS clips though, you at least get a basic feel for the tune...

 

[Hicksville Hogwash]

It would be interesting to find out how much in the way of legal hassles RCS has to go through, they seem to have kind of a weird hosting arrangement, there`s an .edu in the URL...hey I totally understand that setting something up similar would be a huge hassle, I`m just glad that RCS exists, it`s an awesome resource, and I think your idea is very well considered and smart Bosshoss, and I would never suggest that a gbase thinktank needs to be complete with hosted full length clips. i still like those 30 second RCS clips though, you at least get a basic feel for the tune...

Here is how they get around copyright laws also calling yourself an education tool
-

§ 107 . Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use40

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include—
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or value of the copyrighted work.
The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

 

[MopTopMike]

That is not a free pass to upload songs en masse on the internet.

 

[Perkeo]

That is not a free pass to upload songs en masse on the internet.

In the case of RCS, it`s 30 second clips that can`t be downloaded (I mean I`m sure there`s a way but it`s not the objective)...not sure what difference that makes, if any.

 

[bosshoss]

I don't think it would make any difference from a legal standpoint. You'd have to argue the case with the copyright holders. In any case, the real problem is that 25,000 records uploaded onto a single site and "shared" with the world would attract a lot of attention. That would certainly lead to a constant trickle of complaints, whether just upset former band members or legit reissue company honchos' legal departments. Who wants to deal with that as a permanent lifestyle enhancement? Not me, thanks. Like I said, them who wants it, should do it.

 

[eargasm!]

Your concept and definition of this proposed data base is spot on, Mark. A unique online system that compliments TBM without undermining it. It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that one sentence. Mike provided the perfect foundation for such a project you have offered. If someone needs to hear a song or a clip of a song there are very few instances where a little time, research, or small monetary investment won't allow for that song to be heard either by sound clip or in it's entirety. There is no need for you to invest the amount of time or potential revenue for legal (or otherwise) complaints. The idea of the interactive collections would be astonishing and a more accurate way to determine the amount of copies of G45 records actually in collections. You're really ahead of the curve on this one my friend.

 

[bosshoss]

Your concept and definition of this proposed data base is spot on, Mark. A unique online system that compliments TBM without undermining it. It doesn't have to be any more complicated than that one sentence.

One thing is for sure, it will never be all things to all people. But it could be a very useful tool especially for collectors, and to a lesser extent, the wider group of enthusiasts of '60s garage music. This would be especially true if it was integrated with compilation appearance info at some later stage.