Richard Whig
Fleetwood Class
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2011
Yes, the Paul Messis LP is super great - Becca (and others), I think you will flyp over The Higher State and the Ugly Beats.
Retro now sounds
- Thread starter beccabear67
- Start date
paul messis
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2011
- Location
- West Sussex
Cool Thanks Richard.... I am the new Higher State Bass player.... also on Facebook now, so spread the word!!!
I dig the Ugly Beats greatly!
I dig the Ugly Beats greatly!
paul messis
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2011
- Location
- West Sussex
Thanks Tom, well, the guys' have been buddies of mine for a good 3/4 years now, they are like my older brothers, it's sort of meant to be, they help me out with my own music, so it's only natural that they'd eventually ask me to play bass, the band is kind of like Spinal Tap when it has come to bassists, I am sure I will be the one to spontaneously combust mid-show right up there on the stage.
I am trying in my own way to add a more punked out bass vibe to the group, I'm trying to add a few R&B bass runs, some Beatlesy hooks and trying to get that bass sound which The Standells had on their first couple of albums... we'll see if this works in my favour hahaha
I am trying in my own way to add a more punked out bass vibe to the group, I'm trying to add a few R&B bass runs, some Beatlesy hooks and trying to get that bass sound which The Standells had on their first couple of albums... we'll see if this works in my favour hahaha
mansson66
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2011
Bass playing is essential to rock'n'roll! In my experience the best bass players for garage type bands are guitarists, at least these days :)
I can't stand "bass players" who just bang down 4/4 on the major note of the guitar chord ala the Clash and awful bands like that. That's not playing - it's just filling out a frequency heh.
Congrats to playing with the Higher State - they're a great band! Gotta get your LP Paul, btw - even though I think your music is 45 music
But then again, there are some absolutely stunning garage LP's from the 60's aswell. But not many. Remains, Seeds, ? & Mysterians, Savages, New Colony Six... Could be a thread...
I can't stand "bass players" who just bang down 4/4 on the major note of the guitar chord ala the Clash and awful bands like that. That's not playing - it's just filling out a frequency heh.
Congrats to playing with the Higher State - they're a great band! Gotta get your LP Paul, btw - even though I think your music is 45 music
But then again, there are some absolutely stunning garage LP's from the 60's aswell. But not many. Remains, Seeds, ? & Mysterians, Savages, New Colony Six... Could be a thread...
paul messis
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2011
- Location
- West Sussex
Mansson, I agree totally... being a guitarist myself, I know exactly what you're saying.
The Higher State are not gonna know what hit them, when I begin to get comfortable playing their songs... I'm gonna be more cooler than the Outsiders (Dutch) bassist, that guy was the don!
Within the garage idiom what a great deal of the so-called contemporary garage bands miss the point with, is, although a great deal of these teenagers played crudely, recorded at awful studios etc and had badly mastered 45s, they all were however very young and very gifted musicians.... take one of my all time favourite garage 45s The King Ransom's Shame, those kids could play their instruments well, they did their best and played their best and made a killer bunch of records.
What I don't get in today's 'garage' scene is that bands can seem to get away with playing badly as if that is what SHOULD be done?? ... they usually don't even try their best?? opting instead that OH it's PUNK not to be able to play - in my mind it's more PUNK to try and play and if you sound great cool, if you mess up well at least you gave it your best shot.
On all my recordings I have given it my up most best, the bass playing, the organ, the percussion, the vocals, the guitars, all of it I have given 100% on... I am basically trying to do it JUST HOW the original garage bands did it.
I hate Bass playing like the Clash et al, worst type of bass playing ever.
Manss, I know I can do 45s well, In fact I am recording at the studio this weekend, recording 3 tracks, one sad moody cut - one angry as hell fuzz punker and a cover version.... who know's if the two originals will ever see the light of day in release form??? I'll have to see what the deal is with labels etc?
I would recommend purchasing my LP Mansson, I am not just saying that cos it's my album, i do genuinely feel you'll GET where I am coming from, The LP came from my heart, I needed to make it, else I may have gone mad, every song means something to me, it was my whole soul and life over 2 years all on put onto vinyl, it was a huge emotional release.... after doing the fuzztone guitar solo on the final track 'Cry A Tear For Loneliness' I actually cried.... i am exceptionally proud of it as a piece of music and a product - I was aiming to recreate a 'private press' styled garage LP from the 60s and I feel I did that, even the Label on the vinyl was authentic to various private press LP's I saw on Popsike.
I have had a bunch of people including guys who made 60s garage records themselves also the pioneers of garage 45 collecting in the late 70s and early 80s, people who lived during the 60s all compliment me on my album and they've all told me they've felt it's one of the most authentic garage styled records from non 60s act from the most dead garage revival generation yet - so comments like that alone make me feel I have done the correct thing.
speaking of which, there isn't really a garage revival anymore is there, I would say there is probably about 6 bands that do garage correctly in this day and age.... Mansson your band(s) are one of them.
I know I don't write many fuzzed out frantic punkers or sing in that snarling kinda cliched way.... it's because I am influenced by Minnesota, Michigan and New England garage 45s (plus some West Coast Jangle too).... Fenton records is the biggest influence for my music.
I do have an exceptionally fond taste for New England though - I dunno why I just guess I am just a moody kinda guy!
Paul
The Higher State are not gonna know what hit them, when I begin to get comfortable playing their songs... I'm gonna be more cooler than the Outsiders (Dutch) bassist, that guy was the don!
Within the garage idiom what a great deal of the so-called contemporary garage bands miss the point with, is, although a great deal of these teenagers played crudely, recorded at awful studios etc and had badly mastered 45s, they all were however very young and very gifted musicians.... take one of my all time favourite garage 45s The King Ransom's Shame, those kids could play their instruments well, they did their best and played their best and made a killer bunch of records.
What I don't get in today's 'garage' scene is that bands can seem to get away with playing badly as if that is what SHOULD be done?? ... they usually don't even try their best?? opting instead that OH it's PUNK not to be able to play - in my mind it's more PUNK to try and play and if you sound great cool, if you mess up well at least you gave it your best shot.
On all my recordings I have given it my up most best, the bass playing, the organ, the percussion, the vocals, the guitars, all of it I have given 100% on... I am basically trying to do it JUST HOW the original garage bands did it.
I hate Bass playing like the Clash et al, worst type of bass playing ever.
Manss, I know I can do 45s well, In fact I am recording at the studio this weekend, recording 3 tracks, one sad moody cut - one angry as hell fuzz punker and a cover version.... who know's if the two originals will ever see the light of day in release form??? I'll have to see what the deal is with labels etc?
I would recommend purchasing my LP Mansson, I am not just saying that cos it's my album, i do genuinely feel you'll GET where I am coming from, The LP came from my heart, I needed to make it, else I may have gone mad, every song means something to me, it was my whole soul and life over 2 years all on put onto vinyl, it was a huge emotional release.... after doing the fuzztone guitar solo on the final track 'Cry A Tear For Loneliness' I actually cried.... i am exceptionally proud of it as a piece of music and a product - I was aiming to recreate a 'private press' styled garage LP from the 60s and I feel I did that, even the Label on the vinyl was authentic to various private press LP's I saw on Popsike.
I have had a bunch of people including guys who made 60s garage records themselves also the pioneers of garage 45 collecting in the late 70s and early 80s, people who lived during the 60s all compliment me on my album and they've all told me they've felt it's one of the most authentic garage styled records from non 60s act from the most dead garage revival generation yet - so comments like that alone make me feel I have done the correct thing.
speaking of which, there isn't really a garage revival anymore is there, I would say there is probably about 6 bands that do garage correctly in this day and age.... Mansson your band(s) are one of them.
I know I don't write many fuzzed out frantic punkers or sing in that snarling kinda cliched way.... it's because I am influenced by Minnesota, Michigan and New England garage 45s (plus some West Coast Jangle too).... Fenton records is the biggest influence for my music.
I do have an exceptionally fond taste for New England though - I dunno why I just guess I am just a moody kinda guy!
Paul
mansson66
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2011
Course I'll get your LP Paul! I'm just kidding bout the 'only 45s' thing - I know it's not really possible in this day n age to only release 45s. I'd love to have a band that only released 45s. Tried it but it doesn't really work...
Agreed: IMO 'punk' is doing what you wanna do without bothering how it 'should be done' - so in a world where almost everybody's playing that 'lo-fi trash' garagepunkrock'n'roll (often with a polka beat(!) thing it's of course a lot ballsier to wear your heart on your sleeve, write songs that mean something and play them like you mean it!
Agreed: IMO 'punk' is doing what you wanna do without bothering how it 'should be done' - so in a world where almost everybody's playing that 'lo-fi trash' garagepunkrock'n'roll (often with a polka beat(!) thing it's of course a lot ballsier to wear your heart on your sleeve, write songs that mean something and play them like you mean it!
beccabear67
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Location
- Canada
I think of 'punk' in it's original late '60s-late '70s spirit as synonymous with 'do-it-yourself', which did mean doing the rockin' best you could in the face of likely disapproval and no commercial reward. If you were doing your best, giving it your full-bore-stroppy-bollocks-etc. best, then you should be respected. Anything else makes you a 'hack' in my opinion, right? Like the worst noodley progger hiding behind a sequined cape or some studio clock-watcher. I like the thing about writing songs that mean something, writing from your real life too though! You gotta have soul or what's the point?
Revivals are something for marketing fadsters, anything really good got done in spite of all that stuff. They told Brian Jones and company they were all wrong for a couple of years, all the trad jazzers scorned them and they broke most of the rules the pop people had... people like real and direct music when they hear it though, because it has life and is exciting. Technology is just a tool but it's being way overused over the last three decades, and mostly just to help skim milk masquerade as cream.
Revivals are something for marketing fadsters, anything really good got done in spite of all that stuff. They told Brian Jones and company they were all wrong for a couple of years, all the trad jazzers scorned them and they broke most of the rules the pop people had... people like real and direct music when they hear it though, because it has life and is exciting. Technology is just a tool but it's being way overused over the last three decades, and mostly just to help skim milk masquerade as cream.
axel
Tennalaga Class
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2011
Spot on, Paul!
With my band the Royal Flares we started playing covers from a variety of 60s punk styles (Del-Vetts- "Last Time Around", Bachs- "Minister To A Mind Diseased", Fugitives- "Blowin My Mind", Squires- "Going All the Way", Treez- "You Lied To Me Before", Remains- "Don't Look Back" etc.), because I wanted the band (and myself) to fully understand what this music is all about. What everybody in the band has to work on. The drums, the bass, guitars, organ- how this stuff was played in the 60s.
And then you realize: Wow! Those bands (a lot of them) where fuckin imaginative and tight. I'm a big fan of 60s drumming for example. Nobody plays drums like that anymore. Energetic and full of character.
I think we're doing a good job and it's so much fun to play those great songs. And I'm glad we learned how to play them, because now as we start to play our own material it's so much easier. Everybody knows in which direction to go and what NOT to do.
Btw, we want to record in the studio around November. Have you got some tips how to generate a good and authentic sound in the studio?
That would be nice.
Yours,
Axel
mansson66
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2011
'Authentic' sound? Authentic gear. 60's drums, instruments and amps. Good microphones. Preferably analogue tape recorder, but digital is catching up. But it's more work. You'd still need some analogue pre-amp etc. Record live, including solos, and don't bother too much if there's some leakage. Only over dub vocals and percussion. Don't have more than three mic's round the drums. One or two is just fine. Mix in mono. Don't be afraid of big bottom bass - flat wound strings of course - and treble. Master it in true mono, i.e. ONE track rather than two identical - it makes pretty huge difference. Record loud and master loud. Use the room and don't close mic too much. It's good with a room that has 'character'. It's the ambience and the actual minutes when you're playing the song that you wanna capture. IMO. The snare well into the red is usually pretty cool. And last - use less fuzz/distortion/volume than you think. Authentic fuzz box also helps btw. Mix the vocals n breaks louder than you think is necessary - that works out in the mastering, if the one doing it knows his/her s**t. You should get away with 8 channels.
axel
Tennalaga Class
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2011
Thanks, Mans! I will take all this to heart.
I even thought to sing with the band, but then I would probably have to stand in another room, correct? And, of course, it would probably serve my guitar playing when I can concentrate on that. I just thought the energy of the vocals might be different...
Thanks again for your thoughtful input, Mans.
Paul, do you want to add something to Mans' thorough observations?
I even thought to sing with the band, but then I would probably have to stand in another room, correct? And, of course, it would probably serve my guitar playing when I can concentrate on that. I just thought the energy of the vocals might be different...
Thanks again for your thoughtful input, Mans.
Paul, do you want to add something to Mans' thorough observations?
beccabear67
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
- Location
- Canada
That's a great point, I was just reading in Oldham's 'Stoned' book about Regent sound and how they wanted some bleed. Some studios are like intimidating operating theaters where everything is too precisely cut up in my opinion and very limited experience, plus you have the control room up above looking down.
It's funny, the best digital recorded album outside classical or jazz I've ever heard is the first Beat/English Beat 'Just Can't Stop It' LP which was from around late 1980. I used to listen to it on headphones a lot from the vinyl and it really stood up. I've heard some good Chris Isaak stuff that might've been digital too.
paul messis
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2011
- Location
- West Sussex
Axel... Mans said everything correctly before I could.
I personally don't record vocals whilst playing, I usually record the backing tracks and do the vocals afterwards, however that's your choice - I only have sung and played together on one song, that was the acoustic protest song 'heaven and hell' on my LP.
I agree with Mans, use the room, use the gear and use your head in a manner whereby THE STUDIO is another instrument to play with.
experiment too, find places where Microphones feel right for you and also sound right too.
I agree use no less than 3 mics around the drums, I use two, and have at times only used one.
I'm not a fan of bleed myself, the other day we cut a cover version of The Five Bucks' - No use In Trying and whilst recording the guitar, I had to play the last section (which on the recording is just drums and bass guitar).... some guitar bled on the drum track, Although pretty inaudible, that is going to do my head in when I mix this, cos to me that guitar will always be there, I had to play it because I had to use it as a guide for when I recorded the bass guitar!!
Axel, I usually say to myself before a session "how would a 60s garage band record back in the 60s?' I go with this mindset to every recording session, think about a teen-band back in say 1966, they had probably a maximum of 4 hours to record two sides, they would have recorded the backing track, did lead vocals and harmonies, they would have been nervous as hell and most likely made a few things up there and then.... this is exactly how my own sessions go!!!
In terms of recording, Mans covered it pretty well.... however the truth is, there is no real rules to making it authentic or not, you have to just play around until it feels right and when it feels right, continue with it.... I agree with Mans vintage gear HELPS.
Time also helps... so use your time wisely
P
I personally don't record vocals whilst playing, I usually record the backing tracks and do the vocals afterwards, however that's your choice - I only have sung and played together on one song, that was the acoustic protest song 'heaven and hell' on my LP.
I agree with Mans, use the room, use the gear and use your head in a manner whereby THE STUDIO is another instrument to play with.
experiment too, find places where Microphones feel right for you and also sound right too.
I agree use no less than 3 mics around the drums, I use two, and have at times only used one.
I'm not a fan of bleed myself, the other day we cut a cover version of The Five Bucks' - No use In Trying and whilst recording the guitar, I had to play the last section (which on the recording is just drums and bass guitar).... some guitar bled on the drum track, Although pretty inaudible, that is going to do my head in when I mix this, cos to me that guitar will always be there, I had to play it because I had to use it as a guide for when I recorded the bass guitar!!
Axel, I usually say to myself before a session "how would a 60s garage band record back in the 60s?' I go with this mindset to every recording session, think about a teen-band back in say 1966, they had probably a maximum of 4 hours to record two sides, they would have recorded the backing track, did lead vocals and harmonies, they would have been nervous as hell and most likely made a few things up there and then.... this is exactly how my own sessions go!!!
In terms of recording, Mans covered it pretty well.... however the truth is, there is no real rules to making it authentic or not, you have to just play around until it feels right and when it feels right, continue with it.... I agree with Mans vintage gear HELPS.
Time also helps... so use your time wisely
P
paul messis
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2011
- Location
- West Sussex
Oh and Mixing the finished recording is very important - I am not gonna give away secrets here sorry my friend!!!
paul messis
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2011
- Location
- West Sussex
The LP was mastered and pressed in Nashville TN at URP music Distributors, those cats have a good understanding.
If you're interested I have pictures of my last session on my facebook page, you may get snap shots of how things are done???
If you're interested I have pictures of my last session on my facebook page, you may get snap shots of how things are done???
tom kirby
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 27, 2011
When we recorded back then in the Fenton Studio they placed a 3 sided, 4 foot high, plywood wall around my kit and they placed 1 mic over me. But, unless you use ALL vintage equipment, sound booth equipment included, can replicating that sound actually be achieved? And, the recording room is probably only an issue if you're trying to get the sound of one particular song. Plus, the guy running the sound booth equipment has to know how and what was done in the 60's. There are many factors which have an impact on the final output sound. The song itself and the musician play a big part in achieving the sound you're after.
mansson66
Ikon Class
- Joined
- Apr 25, 2011
Good points Tom. I guess the real way to go should be all tubes including the mixing console - which should have no more than 4 channels... To use all tube mic's these days will set you back a small fortune.
I've been using my digital portable and I get a real good sound - the latest Dee Rangers LP is recorded by me down in their rehearsal using only 8 channels and the reviews I've been reading (Shindig, Next Big Thing...) has mentioned the great production hehe. Goes to show. I just captured their live sound and mixed it in mono. That's the most important point about getting a 'genuine' sound I guess - to try and make the recording a 'snapshot' of a band playing a song right there and then, rather than working for a week with overdubs and stuff.
Me and my missus just bought a Gretsch champagne sparkle kit from 1960 btw! Damn great sounding and beautiful to look at! None of us can play drums for the life of it though... I need start practising haha. But now we own everything we need to have a band and/or make great recordings! Vintage guitars, boxes, vintage bass, old amps, a farfisa, and I even have a Korg MS-20(GREAT for analog spacey acidy sound fx) and a Sitar... Autoharp is on the agenda aswell...
I've been using my digital portable and I get a real good sound - the latest Dee Rangers LP is recorded by me down in their rehearsal using only 8 channels and the reviews I've been reading (Shindig, Next Big Thing...) has mentioned the great production hehe. Goes to show. I just captured their live sound and mixed it in mono. That's the most important point about getting a 'genuine' sound I guess - to try and make the recording a 'snapshot' of a band playing a song right there and then, rather than working for a week with overdubs and stuff.
Me and my missus just bought a Gretsch champagne sparkle kit from 1960 btw! Damn great sounding and beautiful to look at! None of us can play drums for the life of it though... I need start practising haha. But now we own everything we need to have a band and/or make great recordings! Vintage guitars, boxes, vintage bass, old amps, a farfisa, and I even have a Korg MS-20(GREAT for analog spacey acidy sound fx) and a Sitar... Autoharp is on the agenda aswell...
