Surprise, surprise - idle chatter about TBM

[chas_kit]

The bonus point effect only came into play if two or more members voted a song as a "10" during the voting process. It was factored in during computation, not after.

Mike, can you explain the bonus points for 10 ratings in more detail? From what you're saying here it sounds like bonus points may have been awarded to songs that didn't make a full "10".

If something was rated a 5 by 8 judges and a 10 by 2 judges, shouldn't the rating be exactly 6.000? What would the bonus points bring it up to in this example?

 

[Michael W]

The entry for Richard Pash and the Backdoor Society "I'm The Kind" has a note about the song's similarity to "Pipe Dream" by the Blues Magoos. Hadn't noticed that before, but listening to both it is clear. Pash gets an 8 and the Blues Magoos a 6, which seems fair as the Richard Pash transformation is more of a raver.

 

[gregk25]

Yes, THEE was used to file all groups with that article, because it was somewhat unique to the era.Plus, there are not that many THEE xxxx groups.
And yes, the missing first group under the letter is noted on the errata sheet affixed to the front cover.
Let me know if you did not get one, I might have missed correcting a couple of books that have gone out.

didnt get the correction sheet w/ my copy. And wouldn't "Thee" remain an article, regardless of spelling (and quantity of groups using it)?

 

[MopTopMike]

Sorry 'bout the oversight...I'll send you an attachment of the sheet which you can print out. It has the explanation of the overprint error.

Thee is an article, of course. I found it unique, decided to keep it when alphabetizing group listings. I file those groups under "T", as do most other collectors whose collections I have gone through. We don't file everything credited as "The xxxx" under T, obviously.

 

[MopTopMike]

Mike, can you explain the bonus points for 10 ratings in more detail? From what you're saying here it sounds like bonus points may have been awarded to songs that didn't make a full "10".

If something was rated a 5 by 8 judges and a 10 by 2 judges, shouldn't the rating be exactly 6.000? What would the bonus points bring it up to in this example?

I'm not going to post computations, algorithms and all that..let's just note that your example did not occur for any of the 14,800+ songs tabulated - a vote result depicting a wide / large deviation between individual vote tally results. Looking at my master list tally, I see that nearly every song which received at least one "10" vote also had votes in the upper range - 9s, or 8s, 7s. There is not one instance of a song receiving a 10 vote from member with the next largest vote being much lower (a 5 vote, or 4 vote, etc). The cabinet guys were extremely consistent in their voting, unbeknownst to them during the entire process.

The calculations for bonus points take into account the overall deviations between the number of 10 cast votes as compared to the remainder of the vote tally results as one factor. The more 10s cast, the more bonus points added. The bonus point system is not a standard, generalized addition to the final calculated mean.

Citing the 10-2; 5-8 example above, the final mean with the appropriate bonus points included would be still be a low 6, a value just slightly higher / more than 6.000

 

[Michael W]

"Thee" is a distinctive identifier. I would be disappointed had it been treated the same as "The".

 

[Lee de Parade]

Can I be a nuisance and ask for the highest rated 69-70 tracks? You know, the very last Mohicans of the garage indians.

 

[chas_kit]

We need the full voting database in an interactive format so we can see individual judges' tallies and drop out those judges we don't agree with!

 

[MopTopMike]

We need the full voting database in an interactive format so we can see individual judges' tallies and drop out those judges we don't agree with!

The problem is keeping up interest of the judges over time. I had to invite utility guys to come in whenever a regular cabinet member couldn't contribute due to other more important commitments in their lives. I'd have to check, but I think Michael W and Rich S were the only two regular members to participate in almost every session over the course of 8 years! Some of the most fanatical fans bailed out of the project after less than two months. They couldn't "take it" haha.

 

[chas_kit]

Would the top 100 or so have a significantly different order using only the simple 1-10 scale without bonus points?

 

[MopTopMike]

Can I be a nuisance and ask for the highest rated 69-70 tracks? You know, the very last Mohicans of the garage indians.

"Green Fuz" comes to mind immediately, the highest post '68 tune in the Top 1000
"Death Is a Dream" Psychotrons (1969)
"Love" Live Wires (1970) is a 7,
"Lost" by Tyde (6)and "Some Kind Of Rich Girl" Beer (7) from 1969 and in the Top 1000
"Bad Woman" Fallen Angels is in there as well, released in Dec. 1970 but recorded in 1966.
...some others:
"Be Forewarned" Macabre "From The Womb To The Tomb" Orange Wedge
"Just Tell Her" Pushin' "The Road Ahead" Shamrock" are all 6s...

 

[MopTopMike]

Would the top 100 or so have a significantly different order using only the simple 1-10 scale without bonus points?

No.

 

[Lee de Parade]

"Green Fuz" comes to mind immediately, the highest post '68 tune in the Top 1000
"Death Is a Dream" Psychotrons (1969)
"Love" Live Wires (1970) is a 7,
"Lost" by Tyde (6)and "Some Kind Of Rich Girl" Beer (7) from 1969 and in the Top 1000
"Bad Woman" Fallen Angels is in there as well, released in Dec. 1970 but recorded in 1966.
...some others:
"Be Forewarned" Macabre "From The Womb To The Tomb" Orange Wedge
"Just Tell Her" Pushin' "The Road Ahead" Shamrock" are all 6s...

Thanks dude!
:)

 

[troggy]

That assumption is incorrect.
As I stated before, no final mean / average results were rounded up. 9.9 is a 9, as is 9.6 and 9.4.
The bonus point effect only came into play if two or more members voted a song as a "10" during the voting process. It was factored in during computation, not after.

Okay, I think that I see what you're saying here. What I was getting at was a song that rated a 9.6 without any bonus points being awarded would acccumulate enough bonus points to rate a ten or above. I don't expect you to give away any trade secrets here.

 

[Patrick the Lama]

Fun to see MTM wrestling with the same nuts & bolts questions that I sweated over when editing the AA book... such as "how to treat band names that begin with 'Thee...'?" :confused: My call was the same as MTM's I'm glad to observe.

More on topic:I don't see "Winston Build The Bridge" by the BUMP included and I think it should be.

There were a couple more possible omissions that flew by last night when I was browsing (I spend 1 hour each night with the TBM book before lights out), hopefully they'll resurface in my mind shortly.

EDIT: just remembered one: "Odyssey" by HIGHER ELEVATION, rather excellent teen-psych. I think it's referenced as "other 45..." but to my ears it should be in the book.

 

[Michael W]

The problem is keeping up interest of the judges over time. I had to invite utility guys to come in whenever a regular cabinet member couldn't contribute due to other more important commitments in their lives. I'd have to check, but I think Michael W and Rich S were the only two regular members to participate in almost every session over the course of 8 years! Some of the most fanatical fans bailed out of the project after less than two months. They couldn't "take it" haha.

I'm sure that I took part in every rating session. I reasoned that Mike was putting in ten times the effort that we were, and if he could do that much then I should be able to do my little bit. I suspect that some people dropped out early as they were overwhelmed by how many "average" songs there were, and only wanted to listen to killers.

 

[Michael W]

Can I be a nuisance and ask for the highest rated 69-70 tracks? You know, the very last Mohicans of the garage indians.

One that I like from one of the early Boss Hoss forum comps is "I Love You (I Want You)" by the Early Americans from May 1971. It gets a 6 in the book. Sounds like the group had been hibernating for 5 years and hadn't absorbed any musical influences post 1966.

 

[MopTopMike]

I'm sure that I took part in every rating session. I suspect that some people dropped out early as they were overwhelmed by how many "average" songs there were, and only wanted to listen to killers.

One guy demanded that I provide full length dubs of every song in return for his participation.
Needless to say, he didn't get to take part.
Several guys said they couldn't devote enough time to do a fair job of judging. Some offered to be fill-ins on occasion.

 

[Lee de Parade]

EDIT: just remembered one: "Odyssey" by HIGHER ELEVATION, rather excellent teen-psych. I think it's referenced as "other 45..." but to my ears it should be in the book.

Yeah, it always remind me of Opus 1's Backstreet 38 Dodge.

 

[MopTopMike]

My handwritten notes don't show any description for that Higher Elevation tune, that is likely the reason it slipped to a mention as Other 45s. I will remedy the situation. No one brought it up during vote sessions - sometimes a cabinet member would suggest a tune by a group that we were voting on at that time.
I'll check out the Bump single on the Pioneer label, I don't have it but it should be easy to nab one.
And as per Mike's suggestion, I'm preparing a large Honorable Mentions section, so you'll find "Come On Down To My Boat" and "The Proper Four Leaf Clover" by Every Mothers Son featured. I wanted to have an E honorable mentions but there was no room to do so on the last page.