"this too shall pass"

[13th Floor Garage]

After many years ago hearing a bootleg of Smile, I've often wondered....

What if Sgt. Pepper (an LP that I blame for starting a bad trend) had been sacked and Smile had received commercial success?

I think that the music world would have been in a better place.

It's not that I think that Smile is a masterpiece, but it fits better following Pet Sounds than Sgt. Pepper did following Revolver (an Lp that I still enjoy to this day).

 

[Hallucalation]

I think if Smile would had came out in January 67 or even in December 66 (that would had been even cooler) it would had been regarded as one of the most crucial psychedelic LPs ever on par with Revolver, Psychedelic Sounds of 13th Floor Elevators, Psychedelic Moods and Fifth Dimension. No one would remember this overblown mess with weak songs which is Sgt Pepper.

 

[captainsalty]

re: pepper: i don't have this record, but from the couple of songs i know, some of them are great (day in the life, within you, leaving home, lucy).
sorry, but i feel it's like a cheap shot to give this record a bad name. i agree stuff like "when i'm 64" is super corny, but that was trendy back then. (cf. stones, something happened to me yesterday,..).

speaking of the stones, what are you guys' opinions on satanic majesty's?

re: beach boys: i do dig the beach boys a lot, but i believe "today" to be a much stronger record than pet sounds and smile. especially side two is gorgeous and blows most of pet sounds and pretty much all of smile out of the water. hell, i'd take "surfer girl" over smile any day. were smile released in 1967, nobody would have cared, i believe.

re: rising storm: i really like how everybody has a different opinion. the great thing is that all this music - early beach boys, early stones, rising storm, pepper - this is all really great music and those are big works of art. still, i find "frozen laughter" to be an exceptionally great song. spin it at night, with headphones on, and you will have a transcendental satori. the song is alive, with the two voices gently triggering the delay, the somber organ and the gentle chords. as interesting as something like "do you like worms" may be, from a historical perspective, i find the song, in comparison, rather lifeless and dead.

just checked out that mike love song again: it still blows donkey ass.

 

[Hallucalation]

The problem with Pepper for me is that it's all about productions, LP unity, iconic overblown album cover but the songs are mostly just subpar by Beatles standards. Great production, sure, but strip away all effects from Mr. Kite, Lucy In The Sky, Lovely Rita, Getting Better, Fixing A Hole and you left with just very average songs. Compare how they pale in comparison to such Revolver songs as For No One, Rigby, I'm Only Sleeping etc. Even Harrison sitar opus on Pepper are much more inferior to Love You To from Revolver. Both Lennon & McCartney are on roll in 1966. In 1967 Lennon was completely disinterested. Only A Day In The Life are really amazing and Strawberry Fields/Penny Lane single really blows away most of Pepper songs. If Smile sounds artificial to some, then i find the same problem for me with Pepper.

I actually like Satanic more than Pepper, at least it rocks in places and in general have very sinister vibe which i dig.

I love Today, used to play it endlessly about 7-8 years ago but now i find it aged for me much more than both PS or Smile.

 

[Frantic]

i'm no big fan of psychedelia, but something like "Frozen Laughter" by the Rising Storm is so, so, so much better than what wilson was doing on smile, and was probably recorded in a fraction of the time.

"Surf's Up" TRUMPS (haha) "Frozen Laughter"

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Botumlespit]

re: pepper: i don't have this record, but from the couple of songs i know, some of them are great (day in the life, within you, leaving home, lucy).
sorry, but i feel it's like a cheap shot to give this record a bad name. i agree stuff like "when i'm 64" is super corny, but that was trendy back then. (cf. stones, something happened to me yesterday,..).

speaking of the stones, what are you guys' opinions on satanic majesty's?

re: beach boys: i do dig the beach boys a lot, but i believe "today" to be a much stronger record than pet sounds and smile. especially side two is gorgeous and blows most of pet sounds and pretty much all of smile out of the water. hell, i'd take "surfer girl" over smile any day. were smile released in 1967, nobody would have cared, i believe.

re: rising storm: i really like how everybody has a different opinion. the great thing is that all this music - early beach boys, early stones, rising storm, pepper - this is all really great music and those are big works of art. still, i find "frozen laughter" to be an exceptionally great song. spin it at night, with headphones on, and you will have a transcendental satori. the song is alive, with the two voices gently triggering the delay, the somber organ and the gentle chords. as interesting as something like "do you like worms" may be, from a historical perspective, i find the song, in comparison, rather lifeless and dead.

just checked out that mike love song again: it still blows donkey ass.

Satanic majesties is a good album but for me it sounds a bit like the stones were trying to do too much in the the studio to try and match the beatles

 

[Dave Baldwin]

i'm really surprised of all the love pet sounds and smile are getting from this garage board.

i'm no big fan of psychedelia, but something like "Frozen Laughter" by the Rising Storm is so, so, so much better than what wilson was doing on smile, and was probably recorded in a fraction of the time.

dennis wilson: always thought what a clown this guy is. a chronic, aggresive misogynist that deserves nothing of the overblown praise that he's getting from the historical narrative á la rolling stone magazine. "forever" is a cool song, though

Pretty hard on poor, dead Dennis there! He was friendly and engaged when I met him...and didn't try to hit on my (rather nubile) date.

nu·bile
(no͞o′bĭl, -bīl′, nyo͞o′-)adj.
1. Ready for marriage; of a marriageable age or condition. Used of young women.

2. Sexually mature and attractive. Used of young women.

 

[Ned]

I bought Pet Sounds in mono as a new LP upon its release & liked it right away. I also liked most of the Beach Boys singles up to this point, but Pet Sounds was a bold departure. I think Brian Wilson was maturing as a composer & understood how to use the studio resources available to him. If I recall correctly, Tony Asher had never worked on song lyrics up to this time either. I can understand Mike Love seeing his meal ticket being pulled out from under him realizing as a band they had just about been turned into their own oldies act. Many people have said their death as a live band came when either they turned down or realized just how passe they had become by not playing at Monterey in 1967. Even a few years earlier they looked stiff , clumsy & a band that had relied on studio musicians in their lukewarm performance on the TAMI show.

It is easy to judge 1966 54 years down the road, but other that an occasional local band that got airplay there were precious sides we now revere here on this forum that we had access to in either our record shops or on the radio. Radio play in those days was very diverse, rock music was and shall remain a 45 vehicle & a competent LP really stood out from the crowd.

For me, there are probably less that two dozen LPs I can listen to all the way through & that number may be a bit generous. Strangely, MTM & I had this conversation just a few weeks ago.

Ned

 

[captainsalty]

at monterey, they would have looked out of place. by then, they were squares.

don't quite agree with the "oldies act". at the time of the pet sounds departure, they were just a few months past a creative peak. "all summer long" is one of the great 60s pop records, "today" is a masterpiece. "summer days", i agree, was a step back and doesn't yield many strong songs. but i don't think at this point in time, they were in danger of becoming an "oldies act".

it's interesting that what really pulled them out of their post-smile crisis was indeed an oldie/retro brainchild of mike love, "do it again", and not anything stemming from wilson.

re: LP's: you mean only 1960s records? interesting thought, but i'm positive i'd find more than 20 that are great from start to finish quickly.

 

[Ned]

By "oldies act" I meant they were becoming more & more incapable of playing their song live as they relied on studio musicians & the songs became more complex. Just look at their performance on the TAMI show. I think their safety would have remained in the more simplistic songs they could perform live. I also think there are some great tracks on Beach Boys LPs, I bought them all as new records up to Pet Sounds. Brian Wilson could write excellent pop songs & both he & Nick Venet had nothing short of top level studio musicians available to them, but as a live band my feeling is they would have come up a bit short in playing many of those songs live.

I was an avid record buyer during the second half of the 1960s and bought a good number of LPs. There were some things I liked as new records that have just not aged very well to my ears. Yes, I was referring to LPs released during the 1960s & was also qualifying as to how many I would dedicate my time to listening to both sides back to back this afternoon.

Brian Wilson could write & craft beautiful pop songs (Good Vibrations, Heroes & Villans, Surfs Up) and so on but I think it is a stretch to think they were representative of a working band, but the end result of extensive studio work & top flight musicians.

Ned

 

[Dave Baldwin]

By "oldies act" I meant they were becoming more & more incapable of playing their song live as they relied on studio musicians & the songs became more complex. Just look at their performance on the TAMI show. I think their safety would have remained in the more simplistic songs they could perform live. I also think there are some great tracks on Beach Boys LPs, I bought them all as new records up to Pet Sounds. Brian Wilson could write excellent pop songs & both he & Nick Venet had nothing short of top level studio musicians available to them, but as a live band my feeling is they would have come up a bit short in playing many of those songs live.

I was an avid record buyer during the second half of the 1960s and bought a good number of LPs. There were some things I liked as new records that have just not aged very well to my ears. Yes, I was referring to LPs released during the 1960s & was also qualifying as to how many I would dedicate my time to listening to both sides back to back this afternoon.

Brian Wilson could write & craft beautiful pop songs (Good Vibrations, Heroes & Villans, Surfs Up) and so on but I think it is a stretch to think they were representative of a working band, but the end result of extensive studio work & top flight musicians.

Ned

I listened to a mono WLP copy of The Nightcrawlers The Little Black Egg (Kapp) LP the other day.
Made it through the whole thing, just like I did when I first heard it when I lived in FL back in '67.

 

[captainsalty]

as for LPs, it's obvious that many 1960s longplayers contain lots of fillers, something that wasn't really done later on.

BUT i feel that many 60s LP's hold up better than later records that sounded great back in the day but did not age well.

For example, the first two Sonics LPs still sound "modern", while later stuff like Dictators, Flamin' Groovies, Devil Dogs,.. has not aged too well.

 

[Hallucalation]

The problem with Monterey is that outside of Good Vibrations and some songs from Pet Sounds, Beach Boys didn't had too many new progressive songs in the set lists. Those fuckers did everything on stage to ruin "Brian Wilson is genius" reputation. Look at their set list at Michigan University gig in October 1966 which was professionally taped for official release - they still played Papa-Om-Mow-Mow and Surfer Girl at that stage, while Brian was creating Do You Like Worms and Wind Chimes at the same time. No wonder they were opposed at new studio stuff! Of course they would had been out of place at Monterey.

Brian removed Beach Boys segment at TAMI show from screenings at cinemas at that time because he was already moved out from that surfer/car period and didn't want to stuck to that image forever.

People often have associations with BB as only surfers but look at their catalogue - the last surfer song was Don't Back Down from 1964 (until Do It Again from 68)! It's like insisting that Beatles were no more than merseybeat group.

Their downfall into pure oldies act began in 1974 when Endless Summer compilation was released. Since 1967 up to 1973 they released a string of very arty and interesting albums. They were constantly moving into new directions until mid-70s.

 

[13th Floor Garage]

While "This Too Shall Pass" is nothing to praise, this isn't the first Beach Boy's related major embarrassment. Here in the U.S. and late 70's (and played on the airwaves) they remade "Here Comes The Night" into a disco dance song.

About two and a half years before this, someone did it right. On the U.S. airwaves (I believe) in 1976, the Beatles "Got To Get You Into My Life" was released as a single and became a hit.

 

[Dave Baldwin]

I have no problem with The Beach Boys catalogue. I don't even lunge for the radio 'off' knob
when "Kokomo" comes on. I can't say the same for some other acts that have 'aged badly'
this Century but still see fit to release new product like The Rolling Stones or Pixies.

 

[Hallucalation]

With the excerption of 1977 LP Love You which is basically solo Brian album, i'm feeling totally embarassing to play anything past 1973. Dennis solo album is OK, Brian 1988 album is suprisingly good but that's it. I'll stick with archival releases of 1964-1968 sessions after that.

While "This Too Shall Pass" is nothing to praise, this isn't the first Beach Boy's related major embarrassment. Here in the U.S. and late 70's (and played on the airwaves) they remade "Here Comes The Night" into a disco dance song.
.

I think the first major misstep was Brian is Back campaigh which resulted in horrible 15 Big Ones album and that atrocious cover of Rock & Roll Music which hit Billboard top 10.

You, guys, will never guess which BB song is the most popular in Russia. You can virtually hear it everyday on oldies radio but absolutely nothing else from them!

 

[Dave Baldwin]

With the excerption of 1977 LP Love You which is basically solo Brian album, i'm feeling totally embarassing to play anything past 1973. Dennis solo album is OK, Brian 1988 album is suprisingly good but that's it. I'll stick with archival releases of 1964-1968 sessions after that.



I think the first major misstep was Brian is Back campaigh which resulted in horrible 15 Big Ones album and that atrocious cover of Rock & Roll Music which hit Billboard top 10.

You, guys, will never guess which BB song is the most popular in Russia. You can virtually hear it everyday on oldies radio but absolutely nothing else from them!

"Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except For Me And My Monkey"? (LOL)

 

[Hallucalation]

"Everybody's Got Something To Hide Except For Me And My Monkey"? (LOL)

California Dreamin'. Yes, that 80's lame cover. Not even Kokomo

 

[Dave Baldwin]

California Dreamin'. Yes, that 80's lame cover. Not even Kokomo

I actually prefer the Beach Boys "80s lame cover" of 'California Dreamin' to The Mama's & Papas' 60s hit version.
The Beach Boys sure made a lot of "lame" moves on it like:
1) Doing a better vocal arrangement than John Phillips came up with originally
2) Putting a solid guitar backbone on it by having Roger McGuinn play his Rickenbacker 370 electric-12 on the session
3) Getting 'Phil Spector Wrecking Crew' sax monster Steve Douglas play the solo instead of some clown with a hippie flute
What's not to like?

 

[Hallucalation]

I actually prefer the Beach Boys "80s lame cover" of 'California Dreamin' to The Mama's & Papas' 60s hit version.
The Beach Boys sure made a lot of "lame" moves on it like:
1) Doing a better vocal arrangement than John Phillips came up with originally
2) Putting a solid guitar backbone on it by having Roger McGuinn play his Rickenbacker 370 electric-12 on the session
3) Getting 'Phil Spector Wrecking Crew' sax monster Steve Douglas play the solo instead of some clown with a hippie flute
What's not to like?

There's a reason this song is not even on many of their compilations (because it's not even their original). Yet this one was chosen as their only song to play on russian radio for 30+ years. Not even Good Vibrations. I'm definitely sick of that song because of constant radioplay and total ignorance about everything else in their vast catalogue.