Foolish People: clueless ebay record sellers

I thought etiquette was against posting a current auction on the forum (one that's not a total joke that is). That one is rare and even in that condition it will be in demand.
 
I paid about the starting bit for a VG- copy a couple of years ago. Not seen another copy offered before or since.

It's one of my favourites despite not really being a Dancefloor pounder as is my usual preference. Great record.

I don't think the seller is particularly clueless or unscrupulous here. They've provided a soundfile and tried to express how they've graded the record. I agree they have probably over graded here but also think they've done their best to provide the info required to allow the buyer to make a reasonably informed decision themselves. It's another example of why I'm increasingly buying from a handful of trusted dealers and friends but it's certainly not the worst from the Ebay snake pit.
 
"....probably over graded"
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Probably???

I believe all ebay sellers and auctions hawking 45s relevant to the focus of this forum (hence my post 'n' link to a currently running auction) that are severely or blatantly not as advertised should be called out. That stated...

I disagree with the P.C. viewpoint of Northeastbeast; this 45 plays as if bombs are going off in the background every two-three seconds. Yes, there is a clip to sample audio quality so bidders can make their own decision as to whether or not to submit a bid.

However, if collectors even think this record is anywhere near a VG grade, well, then you are the reason grading of collectible records has been plummeting to an all time low. you are enabling the grading standards to sink.

This record should be graded Good Minus, since no one has the balls to grade a well beaten, rare record as "poor". As to the price - Why would anyone want to pay $200 for any 45 where the gouges and scratches play loud and proud, unless, perhaps, it is a one-of-a-kind, only known uncompiled copy? That is idiotic, even if the destination of the 45 ends up in a jukebox somewhere. The impatience to just file a piece of over-graded plastic for a ridiculous price never ceases to amaze me. I seriously doubt any of the seasoned veteran collectors here, like nwbuckeye, Rich S, Barry, or even bosshoss would fork over the minimum bid for this horrible copy if they did not have it in their collection. I've passed on potential copies of this that came my way due to inferior playback. I still do not have one. Why? Playback is everything. Not owning the 45, just because everybody thinks it is rare.
 
It's not a PC viewpoint fella, it's just one that's different to yours.

You've decided that this record, which is one you desire and would be interested in if it were the right condition, isn't the one for you, based entirely on the information the seller themselves provide in the listing. To me that's way better than finding out when the record finally arrives on your doorstep, and I'm sure every poster on this board has experienced that pain inthe arse in the past.

They themselves indicate their grading is "subjective", which is a warning in itself.

The market will decide, I'm sure you'll agree with that, and id not be surprised if this sold at the minimum bid or up to $250.

I'd be far more inclined to bid on a record with questionable grading that also provides a soundfile, rather than a questionable grading and no sound file. There have been copies of The Gonn and Long John and the Silvermen recently, two that remain on my wants list, I decided against bidding on them based on a doubt on the grading.

I just disagree that this particular seller deserves your withering scorn anymore than probably about 65% of other ebay sellers.
 
I have, and will glady purchase desired, low-graded collectible 45s, if they play better than the visual grade - one reason I prefer dealing with a person who provides both grades, for visual, and for playback. I have many 45s that look terrible, in the G minus to VG minus category, but they play VG or better. No loud & continuous ticks and pops, or groove distortion caused by playing the 45 on a lousy portable player (you know who you are). Like any serious ebay buyer, I have my mental list of trustworthy sellers that I will place bids with, regardless of whether or not a soundflie is uploaded for listening.

There is a problem with the seller in the link I provided, and the grade of his auction 45 - because, when the auction is over and archived on "look-it-up" websites, the listing will archive as a VG copy. If this record sells at or above the minimum, the reference will be that is was for a VG copy. There is often no soundflie archived, so no one can "check" the grade by listening to the clip.

Therefore, the consent will be that this 45 sold for X dollars in VG condition - when it was really G minus at best. This often affects asking prices for any true VG condition and higher grade copies that surface in the future. Try and find someone willing to sell a Mint Minus copy of the Illusions "City Of People" nowadays. You won't even sniff one for less than 2K, provided someone wants to sell it. Blame that solely on beater copies selling for inflated prices. But that's another subject, especially if the record IS graded according to condition.

People paying ridiculous prices for low grade records "just to have it" are the reason why grading has tanked for good. We don't know if the seller is truly clueless, or lazy and greedy. When you put up a soundclip that captures a poor quality disc, yet understate such condition of the record, you deserve to be called out for it, regardless of whether or not someone purchases the record.

And this "Grading is Subjective" is a total BS excuse. If you know what you are doing, grading is not subjective. That term is just another blanket statement excuse given by people who don't know any better, or have devious intent.
 
MopTopMike said:
Try and find someone willing to sell a Mint Minus copy of the Illusions "City Of People" nowadays.
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Ha, believe me, I have!

I do see where you're coming from but think you're talking as a guy with vast, valuable experience. Most sellers on Ebay have a mere fraction of your knowledge. I see ebay as essentially a giant flea market and my expectations of sellers is low. I don't think this seller is particularly unusual in their listing, indeed I think they're trying hard to be as honest as possible. You are right, there is a wider problem though and I even accept I'm part of the problem (I'd still take that beat up copy of The Illusions that was much maligned on here recently, i just don't see me finding any other copy any time soon, though you never know).

I sold a very desirable funk record last week. It's a record I have owned for a long time, 10+ years. It was a genuine G+ record in my opinion, and I listed a visual grade and a play grade, both of which I thought were honest. I listed it on various funk groups at a very reasonable price but no one would touch it. Why? Because to them a G+ record is borderline unplayable. Even a VG- is often unlistenable in those circles, in my experience.

When I did find a buyer, he was absolutely delighted posting feedback along the lines of "Amazing record, way above grade". I can assure him, it was very accurately graded, he's just used to really shitty sellers who are unscrupulous.

As I said in my initial post, I'm trying to cut out ebay these days because it is so unreliable, I've bought numerous records from BW and, indeed thanks to yourself, Bill Nadolny recently and its a joy. Their knowledge is vast and their reputations speak for themselves. If I could buy all my records from such sellers, I would.

There is another item on Ebay at the moment that I covet and I'm considering my bid, but the description is vague and although the seller has lots of positive feedback, I just dont trust ebay anymore. A soundfile, at least, would help.

In short, I agree with your wider points, but think there are many worse offenders than the guy identified above who is at least trying to mitigate for their lack of knowledge.
 
I think that the two of you should agree to disagree on this issue, but I must make a point to MTM who says:

"Therefore, the consent will be that this 45 sold for X dollars in VG condition - when it was really G minus at best. This often affects asking prices for any true VG condition and higher grade copies that surface in the future. Try and find someone willing to sell a Mint Minus copy of the Illusions "City Of People" nowadays. You won't even sniff one for less than 2K, provided someone wants to sell it. Blame that solely on beater copies selling for inflated prices. But that's another subject, especially if the record IS graded according to condition."


Unless I misunderstand your point, the effect of such a transaction on the asking price would be the opposite of what I think you're suggesting. That is deflating rather than inflating the asking price. It will seem that the 45 sold for $ X in VG condition, although it was only a G copy, when it may have sold for twice that if it were a true VG that played VG. So the next asking price may be far less than this transaction might suggest. Of course, in an auction it shouldn't matter what the start price is.
 
It sold for $353.

The sound clip was noisy in the intro of "Ain't Gonna Cheat on Me" then had pretty good sound throughout. "You Were Telling Lies" sounded not bad, even in the intro. I wouldn't call that VG, but I wouldn't call it G- either. After all, G- is the equivalent of a Fair or Poor, according to Goldmine and my own grading. This may be quibbling, but I would have called it VG- or G+ based on that sound file. That's not a condition I like to buy, but for something this rare, it's bearable I believe.

I still believe no link should have been posted before the auction was over.
 
What has been done to this? Washed in bleach? The original color is yellow
s-l500.jpg


http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Fumin-H...age-VG-HEAR-/182172204756?hash=item2a6a4f3ed4
 
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