Surprise, surprise - idle chatter about TBM

[Patrick the Lama]

I need to make this official: it boggles the mind that the malicious "ooh-bee-dee-baaaaa" torture that is the revolting Don't Say by the Night Riders ended up on the TBM Top 1000. There, I said it. It stinks.

Hmm, this doesn't ring a bell. Have to check it out.

I'm planning a list of the 10 most outrageous ratings in the TBM, it will be a benign and light-hearted thing with no hating, just fun food for debate...

 

[vinyl01]

Hmm, this doesn't ring a bell. Have to check it out.

I'm planning a list of the 10 most outrageous ratings in the TBM, it will be a benign and light-hearted thing with no hating, just fun food for debate...

I do not know about the Night Riders, but there's a topic here about updating the g200 and I think # 166 is P.B. & the Staunchmen which is now out of the top 1,000...what happened there?

 

[buckeyebeat]

Re: Night Riders - I also don't think it's anything great, more like a 4 rating to me. The inept guitar helps conpensate for the dippy backing vocals. I got one cheap somewhere years ago. Probably very early eBay.

 

[MopTopMike]

Re: Night Riders - I also don't think it's anything great, more like a 4 rating to me. The inept guitar helps conpensate for the dippy backing vocals. I got one cheap somewhere years ago. Probably very early eBay.

That letter ("N") was done when it was difficult for the cabinet members to participate, must've been summertime or thereabouts. The results: 8-2 7-4 6-3 6.888

 

[MopTopMike]

I do not know about the Night Riders, but there's a topic here about updating the g200 and I think # 166 is P.B. & the Staunchmen which is now out of the top 1,000...what happened there?

I guess you don't really pay attention to previous postings on this forum, otherwise, you would already understand that the Top 1000 in TeenBeat Mayhem is a consensus vote that is solely focused as to the the musical quality (how good people find it to be). It has no relation to the old G45 list. I have posted this many times in this thread and elsewhere on the forum.

The G45 series of rankings is supposed to be a lighthearted listing of the rarest collectible 45s, and the ranking order is based on rarity first and foremost, yet mingled with other measurement factors Mark came up with. It was not designed to be the "Best of" listings based upon musical quality, like the listing in TeenBeat mayhem, although some people automatically think it to be so.
I just started sorting / working on an overhaul of the listings to eventually submit to Mark.

 

[MopTopMike]

I agree. Ive always had the opinion that it's very over-rated.
I'm thinking of pasting it over with a scan of the monster "Mr. Rolling Stone" by the Hard Times, which shockingly didn't make it.

Cabinet vote tally discrepancies are no fault of MTM by the way, goes without saying. In general I think the vote results are excellent, and a very reliable guide.

I am surprised at the wide span of results myself, now looking at the tally...When you see all of the vote results in Beyond TeenBeat Mayhem, you will understand how close 6.888 and 6.333 really are in the overall scheme of things. Tough competition. Splitting hairs would be an understatement

Mr Rolling Stone 9-1 8-1 7-2 6-2 5-2 4-1 6.333

 

[vinyl01]

When I first joined the list already existed if my memory is correct and I thought it was a serious effort to put the best, like you said by sound and rarity in ranking order. You are saying your rankings are different as you left out the rarity and based the ranking only on sound/musical quality. Did I get your explanation correct? It seems that way as even the common ones like ''talk talk'' by the Music Machine is in the top 10.

 

[bosshoss]

When I first joined the list already existed if my memory is correct and I thought it was a serious effort to put the best, like you said by sound and rarity in ranking order. You are saying your rankings are different as you left out the rarity and based the ranking only on sound/musical quality. Did I get your explanation correct? It seems that way as even the common ones like ''talk talk'' by the Music Machine is in the top 10.

That's correct. The G45 is really just my opinion (with a little help from friends), about which 45s are "most desirable" to own, from a collector point of view. Inevitably, the G45 listings reflect my opinion of the monetary value of each 45 as a collectors item. But I left that value unstated, opting instead for a "G45 rating" relative to other collectible garage 45s. In those days, there was very little '60s garage action on eBay, and it wasn't easy to pick up knowledge about the relative value of these high end items, which rarely changed hands.

The TBM cabinet ratings are based on music quality only, and represent the average rating of approx. 13 garage music fans selected by Mike for their specialised knowledge of the genre.

 

[jeffs11375]

I still haven't bought TBM due to my unemployment but the more I read about it, the more I am looking forward to many obsessive hours of fun reading and going back to my collection picking tacks off of all the comps I've bought over the years.

 

[vinyl01]

That's correct. The G45 is really just my opinion (with a little help from friends), about which 45s are "most desirable" to own, from a collector point of view. Inevitably, the G45 listings reflect my opinion of the monetary value of each 45 as a collectors item. But I left that value unstated, opting instead for a "G45 rating" relative to other collectible garage 45s. In those days, there was very little '60s garage action on eBay, and it wasn't easy to pick up knowledge about the relative value of these high end items, which rarely changed hands.

The TBM cabinet ratings are based on music quality only, and represent the average rating of approx. 13 garage music fans selected by Mike for their specialised knowledge of the genre.

Thanks Bosshoss for your reply and background on the G45 1000. However, I think that the 45 bringing the most money are usually the better sounding ones. I admit that its not always the case and rarity plays a big part in someone wanting to have it. Maybe it's from their area or someone in particular in the band that they know or like that affects the desire for it. There could be some other factors like the producer, label design, colored vinyl, etc.

 

[Lee de Parade]

Sonics Inc (the still-current #1 on the G45 100) is a pretty boring single. Nobody To Love would get a 6 outa me while Diddy Wah Diddy wouldn't receive more than a 5er.
Best two-siders don't show up until #39, #58 & #70..

 

[chas_kit]

Emanon 102, the Todes "Good Things" is listed in TBM as from Oct of '66.

Emanon 101, Mike Lyman & the Little People is listed as March of '67. Are these dates correct? Is Mike Lyman's "I Need You" an original?

Anything else on Emanon? I know there was also a Rochester label by that name, but I'm interested in the CA Emanon.

 

[Patrick the Lama]

Assuming MTM finds this a useful place, I will use this thread to drop occasional corrections and suggestions for the TBM book, and hope it reaches its destination. Given the level of diligence and knowledge involved in the book, these will be rather minor things (unlike, say, when old Vernon forgot to include Beau Brummels in FA & F!), but tiny data are people too, no?

So in that spirit, I'm not entirely at ease with the description of Misty Wizards as a pseudonym for the Spikedrivers -- there was a very ugly breakup of the original Spikedrivers, where Ted Lucas and Richard Keelan split from the group because they were supposed to be the "talents" that would become "stars", etc. The remainder of the group led by Sid Brown continued as the Spikedrivers while hating the Misty Wizards duo. This is all accounted for in the liner notes to RD Records' two related albums. Still in the 2000s Sid Brown hated Ted Lucas guts and expressed happiness at Lucas' death as a lonely, insane man. No Summer Of Love vibes there.

 

[bosshoss]

Sonics Inc (the still-current #1 on the G45 100) is a pretty boring single. Nobody To Love would get a 6 outa me while Diddy Wah Diddy wouldn't receive more than a 5er.
Best two-siders don't show up until #39, #58 & #70..

I'd give them slightly more. I think I gave it an S4 which would mean 8/10 in my book. But there's no way it would be even in the top 10 any more, after the long overdue re-shuffle. The reason it was #1 is because there used to be only one known (vg minus) copy (R5), and both sides were on Tim Warren's comps, namely Teenage Shutdown and Back From The Grave (L4). Now there are at least 4 known copies, 3 of them with picture sleeves. There are many other, better, rarer, more legendary discs.

The way things are shaping up, Just Too Much is probably heading for #1 spot. That thing just has not turned up in 15 years, not at all. Ex-members contacted do not have copies. Never on eBay. Huge offers for dubious existence copies refused. People who claim to own it can not produce a scan or soundfile. Even Joey D. couldn't track it down.

 

[Lee de Parade]

Crazy. What source did Mr. Warren use?

 

[Patrick the Lama]

With all the world-class collections represented in the Cabinet, I find it somewhat surprising that the Lost & Found 45 on IA wasn't available for rating. And I'm not talking about "Professor Black", but the other 45 with two LP tracks. There is in fact a whole bunch of fairly common stuff that was awarded a not-on-hand sombrero symbol, like the PH Factor 45. Shit like this is on Youtube even. What gives?

 

[Patrick the Lama]

The relationship between the Tormentors and Odds & Ends should probably be highlighted, i e: this seems to be the same band. "Cause You Don't Love Me" from the Odds & Ends 45 appears in an identical version on the rare Tormentors LP. My guess is that Tormentors is the earlier incarnation, then Odds & Ends, and then Heros (or whatever it was TBM said).

 

[MopTopMike]

With all the world-class collections represented in the Cabinet, I find it somewhat surprising that the Lost & Found 45 on IA wasn't available for rating. And I'm not talking about "Professor Black", but the other 45 with two LP tracks. There is in fact a whole bunch of fairly common stuff that was awarded a not-on-hand sombrero symbol, like the PH Factor 45. Shit like this is on Youtube even. What gives?

Providing links to Youtube did not always work at the time of the sessions. You gotta remember it was an 8 year long process. The "Target" icon identifies an unavailable track at the time. I don't have everything.
And if I had to rely on Youtube postings for missing tracks the book would still not be ready to print.
Another for unavailable ratings- not enough people voted on the songs to obtain a result. The fewset amount of votes I would accept to achieve a consensus was 9 votes per song. In the early days, I hoped that people doing the voting would pull the tracks off comps, 45s, etc themselves. Obviously that wasn't gonna work, so I ended up doing all of the dubbing, editing and uploading.

 

[MopTopMike]

The relationship between the Tormentors and Odds & Ends should probably be highlighted, i e: this seems to be the same band. "Cause You Don't Love Me" from the Odds & Ends 45 appears in an identical version on the rare Tormentors LP. My guess is that Tormentors is the earlier incarnation, then Odds & Ends, and then Heros (or whatever it was TBM said).

When I had contacted two or three members of the Odds & Ends when revising liner notes for the Garage Punk Unknowns boxset, they had no knowledge of "Cause You Don't Love Me" being released on a LP by a different group to which they had no connection.

 

[Frantic]

The way things are shaping up, Just Too Much is probably heading for #1 spot. That thing just has not turned up in 15 years, not at all. Ex-members contacted do not have copies. Never on eBay. Huge offers for dubious existence copies refused. People who claim to own it can not produce a scan or soundfile. Even Joey D. couldn't track it down.

I spent 2 weeks and 100 phone calls only to find out that I was swimming in the Mopped One's U KNOW WHAT:oops: